Might I propose that there is no black/white answer here?

I suspect some people in Lebanon were inspired by Iraq. Some were inspired by the Ukraine. Some were just pissed at the Syrians. Some were probably out looking for a good excuse to gather in large numbers and get drunk.

To try and link a historic event like this to one cause or even the events of the last year is really over simplifying things.
Did the Iraq election have some bearing on events? Probably. Would the protests have taken place if the US hadn't gone into Iraq? Who knows. It's all speculation.

I am willing to concede that some of this positive revolution is probably indirectly due to America's actions in Iraq... but I can't attribute it to Bush's imaginary competence in spreading democracy.

It's a bit like my good friend who got divorced recently... his wife cheated on him, she moved in with the guy, and then she gave my friend custody of the four kids, telling the kids that she didn't want them in her life anymore. Pretty fucked up.

As a result of this, my friend and his kids are all closer to each other than they ever were before, and only a few months later they are a much happier family unit. They have also become much closer to their extended family. Do I credit the ex-wife for making the family happier? No. It would be stupid to say her actions didn't inadvertently conribute to the change, but that doesn't justify her original intent, nor her actions. Praise would be highly misplaced.

Er....noone had assassinated a major politician who was very popular? Did he not notice a bit of a fraccas there in the 60, 70s and 80s too...

Oh, I see.

You're wondering whether the Bush admin. had any idea what the effect of their actions in Iraq would have on the rest of the middle east and whether they anticipated all of the positive that has come about lately.

In that case, please, do carry on. :)

[quote] It's all speculation./QUOTE]
Since when has that stopped us?

True. :biggrin:

I just thought you boys might come to blows.

However the Iraqis also could be inspired by the Lebanese and Ukrainians. There is one common theme expressed by all Iraqis of the various demoninations. They all want Americans out.

And they will be hunted down, raped, tortured, and killed the next time the pendulum swings the other way. Which is likely to be sooner rather than later. So it goes.

This is Lebanon, not Saudi, do some research.

Watching jag and UT argue makes me horny.

OK, say Bush knew exactly how this was going to play out and maidens would be strewing flowers and palm fronds.
Did he have the right to kill 20k/120k people to make it happen? Did he have the right to force his mid-east vision on Iraq?

No and No.

Just in case you were wondering, Bush is not the Antichrist.

From the site
Actually, %49 of the United States would welcome him.

An interesting article on MSNBC looks at what the writer sees as "What Bush Got Right." I don't necessarily agree with it (I believe that Bush's motives were nefarious, his execution criminally inept, and the benefits a happy side effect which were dearly paid for), but it does make a lot of interesting points.

This isn't a Bush original, but he's the first *president* to form a middle-east policy based on the concept. We're still in the 'killing terrorists' phase, but when the trash has been taken out, you'll see the work that's been going on underneath - the hospital and school and infrastructure building.

Lib media doesn't cover that, because it doesn't feed into their carefully constructed anti-Bush propoganda machine. Look at the title of the MSNBC piece - "What Bush Got Right". My, how very magnanimous of them. Oh well, maybe if they dip their toes far enough into the pool of actual impartial journalism, they'll decide they like it. This article is a start I suppose.

Don't think for a second, though, that a paradigm shift isn't happening in news media. The idea that the NYT can say whatever it wants because, by God, it's the new york times, is passe. During every editorial staff meeting dedicated to combing over an 'anonymous' submission for something to use against Bush, there are 5,000 bloggers networking with what used to be big-media-only sources and getting the facts out there. Yeah, you have to pick through some twaddle to find the truth, and there are more loonies than real researchers. That's ok, conservatives have 40 years of practice trying to mine a nugget of truth out of a pile of shit every time they turn on network news or pick up a newspaper, so the blogosphere is easy.

he's so cute! Next he'll be telling us how bush earnt his place at Yale.

Newsweek just had an article last week talking about how modern Iraqi women are increasingly in danger from Iraqi fundamentalists. Many have been killed or threatened. The point was made that while Saddam was
a brutal dictator, women are NOW actually more repressed than they were under his regime. Two steps forward . . .

Slaves had it great. Three squares and a roof over their head guaranteed. Job protection for life. Nobody would want to give that up.

Lest we forget, that was part of the argument back in the day.

To quote Rumsfeld:

Free people are free to commit crimes. The fundamentalists are exercising that freedom.

Yeah, those 'hard news' stories about the AARP promoting gay marriage and shafting veterans were pretty interesting. :cool:

i was just thinking. wouldn't it be great if we had an election coming up to focus allof our vitriol?

Lest we also forget, black people today are still not socially or economically equal in our society. For all the freedom and equality we preach and try to impose on other nations our own house is not in order.

http://toothpastefordinner.com/03050...oclamation.gif

Sorry.. I had to.

Our situation is a bit too complex to just toss out a phrase like that. There are people trying to help and people trying to hinder from both sides of the fence.

But I agree that we really need to get our shit in one sock before we take off to try to fix other people's problems.

Utter. Fucking. Gold.
*golf clap*

I get confused. I drive to work through Chester, the poorest city in PA, and I see most of the people are black. Then at work, my inspector, my boss and the CEO/CFO are black. Then I drive back through the slums to go home. It certainly shows both ends of the spectrum. :confused:

No it's just that the successful (corporate ones, not the thugs) have sold out to Da Man(tm) and have become oreos.

Or joined a union where they are treated equally. ;)

Not if they work for Wal Mart.

Wal Mart is all about equality - tearing down small communities, white or black, and making them all slums!

Ah, true, my mistake.

Edit:

Funny that that and this should crop up at the same time:

Wal-Mart Jobs and African-American Dreams

Throughout his life, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. made vital connections between the struggle for civil rights, freedom, economic justice and equality. Dr. King's 1967 "Poor People's Campaign" was a heroic effort to bring all these issues together with a powerful call for family-supporting wages that could build ladders from poverty to prosperity.

It was the dogged pursuit of that vision that motivated sanitation workers in Memphis to fight for a living wage by forming a union. When Dr. King was assassinated, he was supporting those striking workers, whose quest for dignity was captured in their campaign slogan "I am a man."

Dr. King's lessons still resonate, with sometimes painful relevance today. As the automation of the 1960s swept away jobs and living standards, he decried workers being pressed into low-wage jobs with longer hours and no protections. Yet even Dr. King could hardly have imagined that such standards would become the business model for the world's largest employer: Wal-Mart.