The split mind of schizophrenia has nothing to to with more than one personality ... it's a disconnent between perception and reality.

Multiple personalities, or what we call Dissociative Identity Disorder these days, is an artificial condition, inflicted upon suggestable patients by therapists who are either unscrupulous, or incompetent.

Good to know, well, ignore what I said about that then.

Never stated it was optional. Just a methodology. logic- "branch of philosophy that studies the metods and principles of correct reasoning."

ethics- "area of philosophy that analyzes the good and right thing to do."

metaphysics- "area of philosophy studying what is real"

Aesthetics-"area of philosophy that studies beauty especially in the arts."

Classic Philosophical Questions- eight edition by James A. Gould

"This we do affirm - that if truth is to be sougtht in every division of philosophy, we must, before all else, possess trustworthy principles and methods for the discernment of truth. Now the Logical branch is that which includes theory of criteria and proofs: so it is with this that we ought to make our beginnings." - SEXTUS EMPIRICUS

"Bad reasoning as well as good reasoning is possible; and this fact is the foundation of the practical side of logic."-CHARLES SANDERS PEIRCE

Thanks for your proposition of the forum I should visit. I enjoyed viewing it. I found it thought provoking. However, I still enjoy the philosophy forum. I may learn something.........

Meaning that you haven't yet?

Schizophrenia as defined by DSM-IV-R: Prescence of psychotic symtoms in an active phase.
!.delusions, prominent hallucinatios (throughout the day for several days or several times a week, each period not be limited to a few brief moments.
incoherance or marked loosening of associations, catatonic behavior, flat or grossly inappropriate affect.

2.Bizarre delusions(ie, involving a phenonomen that the person's culture would regard totally out of the norm.)

3. prominent hallucinations whether auditory or visual. Ie. two or more voices conversing with each other.

Schizophrenia is listed on AxisI of the four axis which would consider it a mental disease. There are also personality disorders on AxisII such as paranoid, schzoid, and schizotypal disorder that may mimic schizophrenia. Personality disorders are not considered a mental disease as major depression, or bi-polar disorder,etc...Personality disorders are usually longstanding and others consider their behavior troublesome.
Dissassociative disorder can be depersonalization disorders, MPD, Psychogenic amnesia and fugue. I think MPD is interesting their has been quite a deal of contoversy over the issue. The overwhelming view is that people that have been classified with this disorder were severely abused as children. This seems to be why you see this form of dissassociative disorder in women who were sexually abused as children. I find your statement that a dissassociative disorder: "is an artificial condition inflicted upon suggestable patients by therapist who are either unscrupulous or incompetent" a bit subjective at best.
Btw there are psychogenic drugs that can also cause a shortlived diassassociative state; such as PCP and Ketamine.......

Woot, Schizophrenia debate, now!

Close enough - American Heritage Dictionary, online version.

True, we can "believe" in facts. We can also believe in superstitions, religious dogma, magic, or politicians. What is the difference between soeone who has no understanding of science, yet accepts the atomic theory; versus a fundamentalist who believes in the "rapture index"? Very little, really. One believes blindly in science, and the other believes blindly in the Bible as the ultimate authority. If I believe blindly in the atomic theory or the second law of thermodynamics without ever having studied the observations and without understanding the logical steps which gave rise to these these two constructs, I'm really no more enlightened in my thinking than a peasant in the Middle Ages who believed the sun and the rest of the universe rotated around the earth.

I would submit that in the example above, you are describing an individual who suffers from a delusion, and calls that delusion "fact." I may see a chair where no one else does because my brain chemistry or ability to percieve has in some way been altered, but my belief does not make a fact out of something which has no basis in reality.

my point is that we're all in exactly the same state as the deluded person. We have no access to the "thing-in-reality", the fact itself, and we are all to the same degree as the deluded person reliant on the only information that we have access to, the perceptions and knowledge constructs that ensue.

Gimme a couple hours, schroed. I've realized that this thread isn't the best place to hash this out, so I'm going to start and epistemology thread. coming soon to a cellar near you!

-sm

No, I've learned a great deal. However it was mostly about personalities not philosophy. For example, I have learned that I still have a tendency towards passive-aggresive behavior. I have learned a great deal about others tendencies as well. There are some very intellegent people on this site, but some :biggrin: appear to need others to know this about them. There is a personality disorder called Narcisism. Most people with this personality disorder which is listed on AxisII of the DSMIV-R, have a hard time accepting or even trying to understand others perspectives. It is almost impossible, to see anything other than through their own eyes.........Don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is the case of the majority of people who post on this site. I think the majority of people posting are smart people who enjoy debate.

No, I've learned a great deal. However it was mostly about personalities not philosophy. For example, I have learned that I still have a tendency towards passive-aggresive behavior. I have learned a great deal about others tendencies as well. There are some very intellegent people on this site, but some :biggrin: appear to need others to know this about them. There is a personality disorder called Narcisism. Most people with this personality disorder which is listed on AxisII of the DSMIV-R, have a hard time accepting or even trying to understand others perspectives. It is almost impossible, to see anything other than through their own eyes.........Don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is the case of the majority of people who post on this site. I think the majority of people posting are smart people who enjoy debate.

hum... *reads the posts* Oh, whew.... At first I thought is was Deja Vu again. ^_^

Sorry about posting the post twice. I was in the middle of something, and I did not realize the mistake. People who realize their mistakes and apologize are usually to an extent fairly healthy.However, people who have a problem with this are usually have narcisistic tendecies. These people do not have the capacity for empathy....

"Deja Vu"" could be considered a topic of the mystical order, such as reincarnation.

Has the people as a whole lost the ability for social politeness?

I am joking, monsieur. I apologize if my comment came off as me snidely pointing out your mistake.

I accept your apology. A bit of advice, stay on the road less traveled. THere appears to be a "click" for lack of better words that have nothing better to do than degrade others. I think that is the road most travelled. I compliment you on your ability to follow the narrow path.....

oh c'mon BT - it seems you have some pretty thin skin and don't understand how otherwise intelligent people can possibly look at a set of facts and form a different opinion than you do. if you haven't realized it yet, about half the cellarites here excel at playing the devil's advocate and enjoy a good debate.

Lookout, I made it quite clear in another post that I have very tough skin. If you would look at some of the replies to my post, I think you would realize this. I just have a problem with intellegent people considering their opinons as fact. There is a difference in being a devil's advocate and a narcissistic asshole..... I wish to meet the other half of cellarites that enjoy debate without considering their facts as infallable. However, it is quite natural for people who have similar personalities to try and persecute people who do not share their beliefs. I find it difficult to understand how you and others can call me down on the least inference I may ascribe too. Maybe if some of the cellarites ascribed to the dialectical method when debating, there possibly would be more skepticism to these "otherwise intellegent people" that you say form about half of the cellearites..........

I cannot nor will I cower down to Omniiscient thought.

yeah, uh huh.

My sentiments exactly. :thepain2:

on second thought...

statements like these make people want to lend less weight to your opinions - you come off as stuffy and full of yourself. have you ever met someone and walked away thinking "wow, that guy thinks his poo doesn't stink?" that is what you often sound like in your posts.
your opinions are valid here, as are everyone else's. don't treat your ideas as holy writ in an argument and other posters will be more inclined to do the same with theirs.

Similar personalities? There is a pretty wide assortment of individuals here. Faith-wise we range from atheists, agnostics, pagans, catholics, protestants, and probably just about everything else you can think of. politically - there are republicans, democrats, libertarians, independents, socialists, maybe an anarchist or two. age wise we've got younguns at 16 and those of a certain age as well. i'd say there are a variety of folks in the cellar.

and so we return to the idea that those who look at the same input that you do, but arrive at a different output are somehow less intelligent. that isn't a very open minded approach to discussion, IMO.

Thank you for the compliment, and I am happy that you accept my apology. Damnable internet in not being able to show expression. Maybe it does and it just comes out differently for other people. Thanks again for your comment relating me to what i've said in the past as well as what's written in one of my quotes. ^_^

"so may targets, so little time."

Thank goodness for the lack of time.

You did not adress the idea of reading replies to my post. I don't think my opions on a subject has ever been declared as "holy Writ" by me. However, I have heard arguments on most subjects, where the debaters considered their opions to be the correct argument. If I come off as "stuffy" and full of myself, I apologize. And I promise you, I have no doub't about my "poo" stinking... I have no doub't there are many different ages, cultures, religion, etc. of folks in the cellar. I was not talking about age, religion, etc...., when discussing personality. A great deal of people including myself; have personality traits which are often considered troublesome. For example, I consider myself passive aggresive, which means I am a passive person:until I feel I've been wronged. When I feel I've been treated unfairly< I become agressive. At least I am able to admitt this. I apologize to anyone, I have called narcissistic, but that is exactly what you are referring too when calling me down. As I have said before, for the most part, I don't go after others unless i feel wronged or threatned. This site has been going on much longer than I have been involved. If you go to some previous post to my arrival, I think you will see what I'm talking about. I assure you my arguments are of the inductive nature...... Sir, I don't think calling others less intelligent as I, one of my calling cards. I agree there are very inteligent people on the cellar. Again, if you take the time to look, I think yo will find this to be true......

garnet, I was hoping you had, as I decided to quit trying to belittle the other.If you have time read post #83 dated 2/17/05 at 1:39 pm., please do, for you are one of the cellarites I was discussing. Peace. Now, if you please, I feel both of us would be better suited to quit badgering the other.......As of today, I will to the best of my ability practice humility, which is a form of wisdom. Something I need more of. Again, I apologize for any deragatory comments made. :blush:

that isn't what passive aggressive means. it refers to someone who prefers not to enter direct confrontation so they make little rabbit punches at the opposition while maintaining a friendly smile and insisting that they have no problem.

Actually your correct. Really what I am is someome who is agressive when treated unfairly or feel I have been. Now, since you do know something about psychology, why not delve deeper into what I was trying to get across. If you would like give me your definition of narcisisim. I've admitted my fault because I didn't think anyone would know the corect definition of passive aggressiveness. Why not try to quit proving someone wrong and look at your own propositions of others beliefs. You know your right again. My point was that I am non-confrontational until provoked: then I can become anti-social. I think you will find that trait a better fit for me...... However, rather than answer any of the arguments I presented , you decided to find the one glaring fault possible. What does that say about your personality. If you want to argue psychology, great that is something I feel I know as much about as our fellow cellarites arguing evoulution vs. creationism......How bout practicing what you preach.

That's really not how a passive aggresive person reacts. Actully the behavior is quite ambiguous, meaning the person is actively passive and aggressive at the same time. They may not be openly confrontational. However, they do exibit their hostility without a smile.......Actually, that was the reason for using that term. I'm not usually actively cnfrontational, but I do show my displeasure at the same time as many cellarites do......
You ever notice the little rabbit punches by cellarites followed by a smile symbol. :alien:

you misunderstand what i am saying. what i have been getting at since i first addressed you was this repeated decision to insult, put down, or otherwise underestimate your fellow cellarites.

i've outdebated smarter men than you and i've had my ass handed to me by people much less intelligent than you. everytime i've thought i was smarter than those around me, someone showed up who was prepared to take me to school. the cellar is definitely a place where that can happen very easily.

i guess what i am saying is... be real. show some humility. be a part of the cellar without feeling like you have to always take someone on. we'll have much more engaging discussions if we can approach discussions as peers rather than in a superior/inferior manner.

i'm just sayin'...

Thanks lookout, and i mean that. No, I havent been misinterpreting the point you were making. At the time, I just thought there were many others who needed the same advice. You know sometimes, there is a need to be put in ones place. I appreciate you doing that in a manner that did not provoke my defevensive tendencies. I do not feel superior at all, but i don't feel inferior either. I am an educated person; just as most on this site. I won't argue that there are more intelligent people using this site than I. However, am I the only one you feel trys to act superior? If so, I think maybe you once again should read some of the replies I have been :) sent; I am fairly new, but I have been educated in philosophy. If you will notice I was jumped on like Dunlavy pretty much from the beginning. I enjoy this site, and I am prepared to practice humility. I just hope others are able to do the same thing.... Thanks again!!!

i've said the same thing with a few other people in the cellar. it is just my pet peeve. regular cellarites probably just tune me out, but that's ok. i figure everyone is just as personally invested in there opinions as i am, so i find no value in insulting those who disagree. we can state our beliefs and occassionally try to sway each other, but we should do so in a respectful way. FWIW, i'm just as guilty as anyone of being nasty at times.

Schrod, the thread I promised earlier is now up .