I wonder where this playground is? :confused:

That's too bad, because it's actually a pretty ingenious design. Making something work equivalently and not look like a swastika would be difficult.

But it only a symbol/reminder of the Nazis to the western world. For 700 million Hindus it's meaning is much different. Even if they never convince the rest of the world to use the swastika (I doubt we'll ever see that hockey team in Edmonton again) at least they can build awareness that the symbol has two meanings. That way the number of ignorant knee jerkers who see a swastika and start pointing and yelling Nazi will be reduced.

If the Nazis had chosen the cross would you be calling for every christian to stop using that symbol?

try three crossbars. do you see a star of david now? or a box or circle design. sure, this one's easy to envision, and construct. but not the only simple effective design.

they have that exact same toy at my son's school. it is a very good school, so i figured i could overlook the white supremacy thing.

I completly agree with you. In hindi it is called a swastik and the Nazi took the symbol from Hinduism and used it in a bad very. In India and Hindus all over the world still use it. Why not, it is our relgious symbol. Just like the person before me said "If the Nazis had choosen the cross would you be calling for every christan to stop using that symbol?" The anwser is no you wouldn't because American's always think that they are right and they are the best. The fact is you are not. As a country, America, we need to start showing respect to all people around the world. And before you talk about something make sure you know what you are talking about because most people here don't even know the TRUE meaning of the swastik and just think it is a bad symbol. I am hindu and I use the symbol because its meaning has not changed for thousands of years and never will just because some dumb people used it in a bad way does not mean we bad! Thank you, that is all.

Welcome to the Cellar India. :) Uh ..have you read the thread? You know, the 29 posts that preceded yours.

i'm pretty new to the whole genocide, nazi VS jew thing. but of late ive seen a few movies and read up on a few things and it just baffles me how so many jews were taken prisioner by the germans. Why did they not fight back - surely the massive number of jews could have taken on a few guards?

And i am yet to hear the story from the nazi point of view. How could a normal human being be brainwashed into killing children, babies, women and men in cold blood, and (in the movies) have it be the same as us squashing an ant in our sandwhich?

i obviously have a lot to learn about it, i know, but there is so much i dont understand about it. I mean, maybe the symbol is good luck - and thats why the germans had so much success in overpowering the jews?

do we have any jewish cellarites or any cellarites whose decended from nazi/ german backgrounds?

No, it was the Spear of Destiny that did that.

You could ask the same about any prison. Except in most prisons there's more discouragement of execution of prisoners.

but to get them into imprisonment in the first place is what i am talking about. i mean, just turning up and saying right you 300 ppl get into the back of that truck, or me and my army of 20 men will hurt you.

First you disarm the whole civilian population.
Second you create animosity between the Jews and everyone else.
Third you herd the Jews into separate neighborhoods
Fourth you wall the neighborhoods and lock them in at night.
Then you round them up and ship them in boxcars to "labor camps"
It's not that hard. :(

Easy, one of Hitler's first decrees was to make private gun ownership illegal and which required all Germans to turn their guns in or have them seized and face severe punishment. In this case, when guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them," -- George Mason

:thumb:

That makes me a VERY good citizen.

http://scribe.fork.org/cellar/akpic.jpg

http://scribe.fork.org/cellar/swamp003.JPG

etc.


(N.B. Troubleshooter, the little guy in the second pic is also a KelTec product ...)

i have never been armed.
i have never been enslaved.

do we have any jewish cellarites or any cellarites whose decended from nazi/ german backgrounds?
_________________________________________________________________
Can't claim the backgrounds but if I part my hair on the right I bear a scary resemblance to a certain high profile Nazi. A couple of years ago I went to a Halloween Party and my German friend went white when he saw me.

Not yet anyway.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Only because enough other people still remember what is necessary to keep it that way.

I dont dispute that. but i dont believe that being armed would make any difference to our survival.

I'll never use a gun on a human, if i was going to kill someone then they must deserve it, so then id rather beat then to death with a crow bar then just shoot them.

Isn't that just like a wop? Brings a crow bar to a gun fight.

Jim Malone in The Untouchables (paraphrased)

whats a WOP?

I believe it stands for 'WithOut Papers' but it's used as an offensive terms for a person of Italian descent.

We are all ready to be savage in some cause.

A pistol for the bedroom,
A shotgun over the door,
A 30-06 for reaching out;
You don't need any more.

A wop refers(slang) to an Italian. :)

Wop:Italian::Mick:Irishman

Your survival, perhaps.

I've heard other antigunners say stuff like this ... if you can't handle killing someone by shooting them, even in defense of your own life, you sure as shit wouldn't be able to beat them to death with a crowbar, even if you had the physical strength to do it.

It takes a lot longer than it looks like in the movies. Or a lucky hit. or 12.

especially when the first one misses by a little. Then you have a howling terrorist on your hands, and he won't hold still for the coup de grace. but he's still reaching for a gun, so you gotta do it despite his tears and yelling, or you get shot.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*crunch*


you have a stronger stomach than me. I'd rather end the discussion without all the histrionics.

If someone gets close enough to me to NEED being bashed in the head with a crowbar, I've done something wrong.

i think a famous scene from Indiana Jones sums this conversation up well.

Bad guy stands in place demonstrating his mad skills with his sword. the crowd oohs and ahs. Harrison Ford puts a bullet in him and goes back to what he was doing.

'nuff said.

Almost 'nuff.
I know I'm 'sposed to be in the darkroom redoing all those f*ing prints, but what the hey?

It reminds ME of an old cheech wizard strip when one of Cheech's nemesises (nemesii?) sends an oriental assasin after him. (think circa Bruce Lee)

"LO! Watch me spling about like quicktiger! You not so fast to avoid upcoming Gook devastation!"

BLAM! (shotgun blast)

"Welcome to the west gook."

NOW 'nuff said.
:lol:

ok let me ask you this then:

if guns were JUST invented.. and nobody else had them. ie: you wouldnt have to have one to defend yourself against someone else who had one.

Would agree with anti gun concepts then?

(hunting animals not included, i'm talking about protection)

No

Self-defense isn't about fairness or equality. As with most things it is about trumping the other guy.

If he has a stick and I have a gun, he may not have have to die if he's smart.

If he has a stick and I have a stick, we may fight or not depending on if he thinks it would be a fair fight or not.

If he has a stick and I don't, he gets my stuff.

So, no, it's not about morality, it's about survival.

Sam Colt's marketing slogan ("Equalizer") still holds. Pretty much any pre-firearm weapon, victory in a fight with equal weapons goes to the strong.

With guns, particularly handguns, the advantages -- to the strong, to the swift, and even to the well-trained -- are much reduced. Though all of those still help.

Equalizer, my ass. Equal is rock paper scissors. "Superior-izer" is what is intended to be conveyed. But the fig leaf of only striving to "equalize" the potential situation hides the fear of weakness.

It's just freakin stuff. You can get more stuff, but lose life, game over. I reckon that having surrendered faith and confidence to fear and doubt, that stuff is the next best thing to cling to.

At my, admittedly low, socioeconomic level, stuff is directly related to how much time I have to devote to reacquiring said stuff. Someone taking my stuff is stealing my time, and thus a portion of my life.

It is not weakness to want to maintain equitability of value of my stuff. I will not surrender the fruit of my time and efforts to some monkey who wants a shortcut through life.

If he wants stuff he can get a fucking job, get declared crazy or handicapped to draw a check or he can get ventilated.

Your making the mistake of taking the slogan out of it's original context. On the frontier, the nearest "law" might be 3 days ride and everyone was armed. If you have a muzzle loader and he has a carbine, you usually lose. The Colt revolver was the state of the art in speed and reliability, so you couldn't be trumped.

The marquis of Queensbury doesn't apply here...there's no shake hands and come out at the bell. There's no ring doctor to stop the contest. Your life is on the line from even a small wound. During the just pasted Civil War, thousands died from small wounds.

Fast forward to 2005....you have to assume that everyone has a gun. Not everyone does but you don't know which ones.
Altercation with anyone is dangerous business. No matter how big, bad or macho you are, I bet you still can't catch a bullet in your teeth. ;)
It may be a superior-izer... but you can't count on it being anything more than an equalizer.
Like Groucho said, "You Bet Your Life".

Surrendering faith and confidence to fear and doubt is exactly what happens if you let them take your stuff.
It's not losing the STUFF..... it's LOSING the stuff. :worried:

Just to jump back on the swastika horse for a second, purloining a symbol from one cultural group to be used in other, perhaps devious, ways by another, is not the sole domain of the Nazis. The Christians, when they came across the Pagans "stole" many Pagan rituals of the Yule and the festival of Eostar, to name but two, to, ostensibly, convince the non-Christians of the day that they (the Chistians) were an enlightened bunch, and "Gosh, we can have all sorts of happy days as well. Why don't you celebrate ours and leave your nonsense behind." So, if the first group then tries to use those "purloined" rituals, are the meanings diminished in the eyes of the user? No, I think not. In fact, I think that using a symbol in the way it was originally intended can eradicate the secondary meaning because the primary meaning often makes more sense. For instance, why does the Christian world use the symbol of the bunny at Easter? Simple, it was originally a pagan symbol of fertility (multiplying into life), as was the egg, at celebrations held at about the same time as Christ's crucifixion day. Perhaps the origins of the svastik should be explored so that those still convinced that the new meaning is the only meaning will understand why it was used in the first place (I don't like the notion of posting links, so I won't ... let's just say, I went to google and looked for <<"hindu swastika" origins>> ... the first link it came up with (hinducouncil) was the most interesting). So, what's the point of my posting? Simply, that anyone can use symbols whether originally their own or someone else's. If a symbol has had a negative connotation, research it's origins. If the original meaning was positive, use the symbol in that positive light and the meaning may change for you. If not, try to be sympathetic to those who *have* been using those symbols for many years.
Cheerio

thanks Ross. I'm sure many who use a pentagram/pentacle in their current rituals will agree. ;)

Welcome to the Cellar Ross. :)
You're spot on....it's not the symbol but the acts committed in it's name.