I'll tell you what the bigger insult is: it's assuming that I would somehow become Mr. Sweetness and Light Heavy-ass Moderator, pressing this issue like it was the biggest piece of shit that ever landed on your doorstep, and continuing that assumption after the reasoning for this policy change had become clear.

I've removed 4 users, I think, in 14 years.

COUNTLESS SPAM MESSAGES AND SPAM USERS. About 200 of 'em. You never got pissed at that... should I stop moderating those? Should we make a fucking policy message? Or should we trust UT's judgement like we have all this time?

And two threads.

Well, thank you for your vote of trust.

tony,

would you mind answering whit's question, please?

I am of the opinion that this site is free, and participation is completely voluntary, so anything we put up here can be deleted at any time and that is well within your rights.. In fact, I'd like to say that participation here is a priveledge, not a right, and if you want to erase every seventh post arbitrarily, that's up to you and only you. I'm under the impression, though that you DO get something out of the cellar, otherwise, you'd simply turn off the server, and go on with your life. And...you'd rather not delete content.

So, I'm not worried, and will continue as i have done in the past, to post exactly what's on my mind. I mean, this is all just a long conversation anyway, right? just words. we're not chartering the constitution here, people. I have spent a fair amount of time composing my "tour" thread, and i care about it, but I did it in word, AND SAVED IT. I really dont think this "policy change" is a policy change at all. Its simply demarkation of a line that should heve been visible to everyone anyway.

dont fuck with anyone's personal life......fair enough?

but, i think the masses need to hear it from you.

I vote for this one.

I have also laid low on this whole incident, but I don't understand why folks are so upset about UT making this decision. After all, this is and has been his forum. In the past, we DID trust his judgement. He didn't have to ask anyone's permission or get community support (though, on several occasions did) to delete an account or lock threads. Why should he have to for this? Obviously, he has strong personal reasons for this, but despite that, it IS his forum, just as it WAS his forum before. He has been gracious to share it with us, just as he is now, as he continues to do so. I don't see how this action was so far outside the previous guidelines for the cellar, as juju has implied.

Personally, I have always had a certain level of respect for UT for all that he has to do to keep the cellar afloat. If it weren't for his participation as administrator AND moderator, we would likely experience a lot more frustration with no boundaries in place to keep out the riff raff.

I know it isn't common to hear me rant, so I am sorry if I have offended anyone. I just wanted to share my 2 cents and make a note that I think UT is being beat on a bit too much for deleting a couple of threads.

I also want to say to those who feel the need to leave or, sort of leave, that I wish you wouldn't. Juju, I have always enjoyed reading what you have to say. You said that you take hours, sometimes, to complete a post, and it is obvious with some of the insights you have shared. I would be saddened to see you leave. Sycamore, I know you have decided to remove the Manifestos, but doing so takes one of the things away that I look forward to everyday. I am sure several others would say the same. Please consider putting all this in the past and going back to the dialog that makes the cellar such a fun place to visit.

Okay, rant over. I'll now go back to being that quiet voice in the corner. :)

LJ, I REFUSE to say exactly what I'm going to moderate.

If I do, I'm absolutely certain that it will be used against me.

"Look, look, he's violating the Official Code! Foul!"

People are asses, and they will use what I've said to march triumphantly right up to the line and not cross it: "But you said we could insult people endlessly, as long as we didn't talk about how ugly their relatives are!"

I know what to moderate and what not to moderate. I'm a fucking genius at it, in my own massive ego, and righteously pissed that you all don't acknowledge my obvious superiority.

OK that was a joke.

Not bad points, case. I've composed and erased several composed posts in this thread.

There seems to be a notion of squatters rights that I don't seem to get. Just because I've been sittin on my buddies couch for the last couple years does not all of the sudden imply that I now control ( or have any say about) the remote.

Would anyone here really mod the board any differently? My guess is no. If someone took a dump on your head wouldn't you be hacked and piss on a couple fire hydrants to assert (and remind) everyone whose house this is? I would and I bet you would too.

I don't know all the ins and outs of what's going on (none of my business, really) but I don't see what the big deal is (not with the "problem" but with the "molehill in a telescope" being made of the post-Problem Cellar). Same ole Cellar, same ole UT as far as I can tell.

I used to hang out on another message board that, with all due respect, was nearly as good as this one - we all knew each other, blah, blah, blah. One day, it was gone and I thought I lost a freakin' limb. That was a couple years ago. Enjoy it while its here and try not to presume too much - its not real estate - it can vanish in the time it takes to hit "RELOAD."
[/soap box]
edited to indicate whose points I said weren't bad since UT's post sqeezed in between mine and case's.

THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME...

.....ANY OF YOU FUCKERS GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

I do. ;)

See, all we really need is a good virtual bouncer.

Well, I already knew everything (as far as I know), and I've known for a while. So, it's not like this is a great revelation to me. But, really, I don't care. It has nothing to do with me -- I'm not involved. I don't know why you think I'm pissed about it. I never said anything to suggest so.

I only wanted the thread locked instead of deleted. When I suggested so, you said, "If you don't like the new rules you can fuck off your own self." That's pretty rude. As far as I know, I offered a reasonable, courteous suggestion and you offered me unprovoked rage for no reason.

I only brought it up now because you brought it up. You said, "Entire marriages are more important than Juju's fucking time." If you're going to bring up something that criticizes me, and I don't understand what you mean, I'm going to ask you what you mean.



Since you asked, I'll respond. If I were in your situation, this would be my line of thinking.

If they can't trust each other in a situation like that, then they have problems that won't be solved by anything I could do. Seriously, 0.001%? No sane person would care about what happened. It's tame -- you crossed no lines. I certainly would not cover something up knowing I did nothing wrong. Why bother? It only makes it look like something bad happened when it didn't.

Now, don't try to give my opinion here more value than it's worth, and go off on me trying to defend yourself. I'm only giving my opinion here because you asked. I'm not involved and it's none of my business. Moderation policies are my business, personal drama isn't.



This IS true. However, you've been extremely emotional and (from my point of view) irrational lately. It's a complete change of character, and I worry that you have cast aside your principles. Perhaps I am wrong. But it's hard for me to determine when, instead of answering questions, you flame me when I don't think I've done anything to provoke it. If you make a major change to your moderation policies, why can't I question the decision?

You people that are saying, "It's his board and he can do what he wants" -- I don't think you understand that for years and years he has professed the exact opposite philosophy. Now, maybe he still believes in that. I think it's very fair and reasonable for me to ask if that's true. I don't think it's an inflammatory question at all. But, obviously, by making such a statement, you've missed every single time that he's said otherwise.

Anyway, however you have decided to be, I don't see why you have to hold some angry torch for me over it. So I questioned you. So what?

With the utmost respect, I still would like the following questions answered:

[edit - changed 'asking questions' typo to 'answering questions']

Tony owns the board…he has the right to do whatever he wants with it. I don’t agree with how he is handling things right now…and that’s fine. I have the right to disagree.

But let this shit die already. If you’re cool with things as they are, stay. If not, leave, and quit bitching about it. This is getting really fucking stupid.

And so, I’d just like to say that it’s been a pleasure chatting with you all, but I believe that it’s best that I take an extended leave. Feel free to PM me, IM me, or stop by the Sycamoreland website, which I should have back up and running in the next month or so. I’ll still be in the CD exchange, so I’ll be looking forward to hearing some tunes.

Adios.

Sorry, Syc. I just wanted to know why he hates me.

yeah, right.....talk to you tomorrow, hammer

Hey Juju, remember a few days ago when I wasn't expressive enough for ya?

How ya like me now, assface?

Don't yank my crank and then ask why I got cranky.

And one more thing: if you don't know where I got pissed, you aren't capable of judging those 0.001% odds, either.

You don't know where the line is, so you'll cross it by accident. And then sorry won't be enough.

UT, that makes no sense. I've been coming here, what, 3 years? And you can't get over an innocuous question about your self-esteem? And now you hate me because I was annoyed that you wouldn't answer me?

That is stupid.

Well, I really hate this. I don't want anyone to hate me, but you're apparently unwilling to work it out.

It kills me to think of leaving the Cellar after coming here for so long. But I just can't post freely knowing that my posts might be deleted. Perhaps I will post from time to time, but I'll try to make sure it's a fairly rare occurance.

I wish you all well in your endeavors.

It's worth saying that he has professed that exact opposite philosophy at times in the past when at least a couple of us were saying, "No, you're wrong, Tony, there are times when you SHOULD step in and put a stop to things."

As always, you have a wonderful way with words. :)

As someone who knows Sycamore better than anyone on this board, you are right when you mentioned his morals/opinions about censorship, which is why (I would imagine) people were attracted to The Cellar in the first place. However, people have the right to change their minds about things (and that was basically for those who are not liking the changes). As far as I'm concerned, this is not that big of a deal. If one cannot be respectful of another's opinions, and feels the need to lash out, namecall, and just be downright offensive, then, IMO, they have offline issues to deal with (unless they are just being difficult for the sake of being difficult).

So anyway, that's my take on the matter.

Eep.
 

Personally, I am beyond impressed that the Cellar is still in existance, and sorry beyond words to be seeing this incredible bout of mud-slinging and hurt feelings.

I didn't see the threads or discussions that caused the mess.

I do, however, trust the Cellular Powers That Be enough to know that it warranted this reaction.

That trust, btw, has been gained from the years of this crowd being an intermittent part of my awareness since...what, '89?

Here's hoping for healing.

{AOL}Me too!!!{/AOL}

Hehe, sorry, I see people doing that all the time on Usenet. :D

But seriously, I second what you said. Point blank, end of story (I hope..sheesh!) :rolleyes:

Way ta have my back, Rho!!

:D

Nobody mentioned my editorializing in today's IotD yet. I guess it was too subtle

It was meant in jest :D

does this mean thay my kids will have some scar tissue to deal with if they ever participate on a message board?

how very insidious of you

Phew... I suspected there was something going on, but I guess I didn't get it.

However, I think your current extermination program is a bit closer to the Java method than the US method. Being a bit more surgical could have kept the pesticide off of yourself and the bystanders.

Nah, I made the connection. It was kinda subtle, though. You should have tried this:

'This picture sort of reminds me of the housecleaning that is taking place here on the Cellar. Sure, a lot of people will bitch, but at least the assholes will be gone, so the hell with the whiners.

Things will be good here once all this crap is done. People might hate me from here on out, but they won't be getting called names or having their personal lives fucked with as long as I've got anything to say about it. Oh, yeah...the people in this picture are killing bugs.'

This was meant in jest, too, UT. I'm on your side.

C'mon, 'fess up Tony. You're just trying to steal some groupies from the WWF, ain't cha. ;)

You killed Ta Guk Sai Jon*. You bastard.




* That's Java for fucktard.

PMS
 

and.........*I* would like to make the point here that we seem to have been hit by some kind of a PMS reversal ray. moderates here today: women. extremists: the other sex.

whoops.... isaid sex.


dar

Well Dar, since you brought it up.......;)

As my role is:

1) New
2) Primarily in a lurking fashion
3) Posts about crap

I don't think anything I offer is in jeopardy, so it is easy for me to shrug, and say "if people can't govern themselves, they need to be governed."

I'm not taking sides. I don't really have a right to any input. As a teen I was told many times, "you will abide by my rules when you live under my roof."

If this keeps up, I'm going to end up in the Top 10 Poster list through attrition alone.

I'm only going on a decade of posting to the assorted Cellar incarnations, and quite frankly, I don't view the new policy as a major change. Tony's house, Tony's rules. We don't pay for the bandwidth and upkeep on this sucker, so we don't get to dictate what content stays and what content goes. If that's news to anyone, I'm surprised.

Has Tony traditionally been quite liberal in terms of what content's been allowed to remain? Yes, from the beginning. That's for sanity's sake as much as anything else. Policing the Cellar would be like moderating a modern USENET newsgroup -- you're thrust into the role of reading damn near everything, weighing the fairness and offensiveness of uncountable idjits' bleatings, trying to keep everyone reasonably happy, and spending far too much time trying to shield the place from spam, trolls and uncaring shitheads. And if one or more oldbies consider you to have erred in your judgement while cleaning up the place, you get an oversized ration of shit in your ear for a while.

I didn't read the Manifestos, I didn't read the Dave vs. Sycamore threads that spurred Dave's exit until the damage had already been done, I didn't read half of the things that have apparently triggered all of this. Hell, I tend to disappear for days or weeks at a time. I keep a healthy distance, instead of getting too intimately entwined in the personal lives of other posters. And maybe that's smart of me, because I've been watching Tony and several message-board frequent flyers snarling at each other over what I perceive to be personal issues, while I'm standing in the corner with no hard feelings towards anybody.

(Except Scott Boras and John Ashcroft. Fuck them. But I digress.)

For all I know, this board could be a huge Phil Hendrie running gag, with a handful of people assuming dozens of roles each and provoking unwitting onlookers into posting ironically humorous stuff. And that really wouldn't bother me, because I enjoy reading what shows up around here, and that's all I'm worried about.

My posting style isn't changing. My lurking style isn't changing. If I throw something out that gets on Tony's bad side, I'm sure he'll let me know via the Iron Hammer of Threadwhacking, but since I'm essentially separated from all of the offline drama that's apparently going on, I don't see that happening. If Tony wants to weed much of that out, I'm not having him fitted for a Brownshirt. And if I do unwittingly cross the line and take offense, fuck it, I know a handful of other message boards that are worthwhile, even if they don't have the unique history and Philly flair of this one.

I'm done babbling. Next!

[thread]Phil Hendrie? Can you explain him?? I've tried his show a couple times since they pu him on XM in place of Drew Garabo and now Bubba, and ... ick.. I can't listen for more than 5 mnutes. Am I missing something??[/hijack]

EVERY single guest on Phil Hendrie's show -- whether they're old or young, male or female, sane or cracked -- is Phil Hendrie. The callers are real (and the butt of the joke), everything else is a put-on.

OK, I'll give it another try. But... don't the callers know this? Or is it privileged information that I'll have to die now that I've been informed of?

Some callers know this, but most don't seem to... or at least they prefer to let callers on the air who aren't in on the joke. It's like Meta-Springer.