My turn to get some licks in
 

April is the way she is because she's a child? That's both insulting to actual young people and too easy on her. I've been using BBSs (to use the old name) since I was far younger than April, and never managed to make nearly as much of an ass out of myself (and I usually am pretty good at making an ass out of myself). This includes BBSs and forums mainly populated by adults.

I imagine there are several regulars on the Cellar who could say the same -- including some who are that young now. It's doing them a disservice to blame April's behavior on her age.

(as for the privacy issue -- well, you want _my_ name and address, look up the whois for russotto.net. If you want to scare me, send me a Dell anonymously. If you REALLY want to scare me, leave a couple of cases of Dos Equis outside my door in the middle of the night.)

I was just wondering...are newspapers also risking a student's life and limb when they publish their names and the name of the school, say in the sports pages or when the honor roll comes out?

I mean, then, you get a full name and a definite school name, probably even the grade the kid is in...even a picture of little darlings.

Sure seems like more useful info for a potential psycho than the stuff that got posted here...

When you read about someone in the newspaper it is a different thing than interacting with them on the internet. A deviant may feel that he or she has a real relationship (however filled with animosity) with the girl due to their interactions here, and thus may feel inclined to go further than he or she would have having just read her name in the newspaper.

Regarding stating opinion as fact, I feel it is a great waste of time to preface everything with "In my opinion." Clearly, I am writing it, thus it is my opinion. When in a discussion of morals or other non-concrete ideas, I generally take what everyone says as their opinion. This is a conversation, not a game of Jeopardy. I will continue to post my opinions without the opinion disclaimer, especially in cases like this. There is no question in my mind that posting that information is wrong. You can feel free to disagree with that, it will just confirm that we don't share the same moral standards, and what I know is true for me may not be true for you, but that does not mean that I will back down from it.

If you want to blather on about semantics, feel free. Post each sentence of this post and dissect it. I'm not going to cow down and change the way I express myself because you can't bother to discern the difference between me saying:

"It is wrong to post information about a child on the internet" (my personal morals)

and

"The first president of the United States was Johnny Rotten" (a blatant misrepresentation of fact)

I will concede, however, that April doesn't seem to give a rat's ass that this information has been posted, so it's really a moot point.

A deviant can get any idea he/she wants, based on any information anywhere. There are lots of cases where delusional people imagined that they had a relationship with someone on TV or in the movies, when in fact they did not.

I'm not sure it is practical to expect everyone and everything in the world to function as though a deviant might somehow abuse the information they've gathered in a public forum.

You are, however, entirely entitled to your opinions and morals. Hey, at least you have some. A lot of people seem to lack them altogether.

You <i>said</i> it was a fact. Now you're backpedaling and admitting it's just your opinion.

Not only does no one agree with you, but even <i>you</i> don't agree with you.

I will agree with you that it isn't practical for everyone to live in fear of deviant abusing every tidbit of information given. I do think, however, that it should be my own decision to post my information just as it should be your decision to post yours. I realize that the chances are slim of anything happening as a result of information being posted in this forum, but if that 1 in 1000 (I'm making up that statistic, don't hold me to it) chance happens to occur and a lunatic does abuse the information, I would feel pretty lousy if I were the one to have posted the information. The decision of how much personal information to disclose to a group of strangers should remain in the hands of each individual. It's not my place to decide what information people should know about another person, nor is it yours (the broad you, not you specifically).

I'm tired and I'm repeating myself, so if this is a big, circular post, I'm sorry.

You are free to do so. And I will continue to call you on things when I consider it necessary.

Though I can't take people like you seriously anyway...

I may not always agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to commit suicide to make your point.

Again, JuJu, I'm sorry you feel I am back-pedalling. If this makes you feel better, here:

I feel that it is a fact that what was posted about April is wrong. No matter how many ways you justify it, I will not feel any differently. I'm sure that you would say that it is a FACT that raping and murdering people is wrong, but to the rapists and murderers in the world, that fact is not true. It doesn't make it any less of something you hold true because they disagree.

It seems silly to debate over the word usage here. I will give you that I used the word "fact" loosely. Okay?

You can't take people like me seriously? Why, because I disagree with you? I don't think I've been out of line in arguing my point. I didn't realize that I had to become a part of the cellar borg to be taken seriously.

I've made concessions. I've acknowledged when you made valid points. I would take someone who was willing to do that more seriously than someone who just fell down on his knees and changed his opinion because the majority of the people disagreed with him.

you FEEL that it is a fact, and that statement is your opinion.

my opinion is that rape and murder are wrong. these feelings may be fact to me, but they are still my opinion, because they are not ACTUAL to everyone else (or factual, for that matter!). besides, "wrong" and "bad" are vague words that are generally not used to define things.

No

Not at all.

This quote from you is part of the reason why:

Here's how the above quote comes across to me: "I'm too lazy to back up or qualify things that could be misconstrued. I expect you to automatically assume that everything I say here is opinion. Because I take what people say in moral or intangible idea discussions to be opinion, I expect everyone else here to do the same. So, I'm going to keep doing what I do."

And while you have made a few concessions, up to this point you have tried to impose your morality on me, assumed that I was patronizing you and stated that the high school information posted was done to intimidate. Plus, it sounds like you were trying to call me a sick person, though you have yet to answer my question regarding that. It seems like you're trying to make me out to be a bad guy, when 5000+ posts and at least a dozen people on here would argue otherwise.

So, to sum up, I can't take you seriously because you haven't shown that you're really worthy of my respect. You may not agree with what I did or what I say, but I don't think that gives you the right to do what you've done.

No. Because I would never take seriously a cunt that would misrepresent a college project (The original Model State Computer Crimes Code Code was drafted by the students participating in the 1998 Cybercrimes Seminar. The Code has now been revised by the students of the 1999 Cybercrimes Seminar.) as law.
I admit you fooled me. You won't again.:shotgun:

uh, did i miss something, bruce?

I can honestly say.....he's not a bad guy. Not as nice as me, but not a bad guy.

Ummm...I appreciate the endorsement Saddam, but I wasn't quite looking for yours.

you know what's effed up? I'd like to tear off a little piece of hayward for posting the way she did before she knew who she was correcting, but i'm still pretty sure that its just dave in drag.
....but then there's that last post from bruce.......


i did notice, however, that there is a noticeable parrallel in this thread to the .juju/dave argument , but without the name calling and bruised feelings.....the same argument but both sides are being civil.......and this looks like both sides can see the others point. Is this a lesson?

....but then there's that last post from bruce......

oh, and syc is not sick.......although i can see how you'd be confused

Then you need to re-evaluate. I don't make multiple accounts. Anything I have to say, I'll say it under my real name.

that's good to know

who is she, then?

Hayward posted: ETA: for your reading pleasure http://cybercrimes.net/99MSCCC/MSCC...le3/3.01.3.html Article III about posting Aprils stats. Go back and read my post again.

link won't load...mind paraphrasing?

Like I have any idea. I'm just enjoying watching the retards fight.

Can't. Go back to her post on page 4.

"cunt" and "retards"...(!)(?)
CLEARLY, I am the idiot here.
Wow, there's so much wrong with those words, I am breathless.

That's part of your problem. There is nothing wrong with those words or in fact any words.
The things that may be right, wrong or somewhere in between are motives, methods, and messages.

So...............whadya think..........eh, never mind. This looks strangely interesting.

"There is nothing wrong with those words or in fact any words."

Um...is that a fact or an opinion? Read: any and all of Sycamore dissection posts.

"Those who feel they (a) cannot contribute to a discussion (b) cannot further their expertise in said discussion and (c) are flat-out rude/mean resort to arguing semantics and/or name calling"
~HaywardNelson

Once an opinion but has now been hereby classified as fact.

It's a fact.

The words are offensive to some people. THAT is a fact.

Sycamore, I didn't say that you were sick specifically. SOME people are sick. SOME sick people will make an effort to hunt down information about children on the internet. These two statements together do not mean ALL people who hunt down information about people on the internet are sick.

It's pretty sad that some of you can't hold a conversation about the morality of making someone else's information public without resorting to name calling or perseverating on the semantics of the conversation. You've been victorious in your battle to differentiate opinon from fact, congratulations. I can only assume that you had to focus on these things because you couldn't hold your own in the original debate.

I think I held my own quite well, thank you. Perhaps you should learn to debate without the use of underhanded tactics.

Re: Things you should do.
 

Just to remind you of the origins of the original debate.
If you find words offensive, then you are as I suspected and stated.

Finding the words "cunt" and "retard" offensive means that you are a cunt and a retard? Nice logic. I'm sure that many people you respect and like find those words offensive, not because they are cunts and retards, but because they have a little respect for other people.

I've said before that April behaved like an ass but she didn't deserve what was done. I wasn't debating that she acted like an ass and a child. I was debating the morality of posting her information. Some of you then chose to debate semantics and name-call.

I actually do find them offensive here, but thats what the ignore button is for.

Just my opinion.

And....I've had this account waiting for a while. Thanks

Ima

How do we know Hayward is a female?

Sorry, I've been in and out of this.

She worked her period into a point she was trying to make in one of her posts.

OK.

Slang- I am a female. I think I posted it somewhere.
Also, so I don't get called out by Sycamore and his scalpel, my post re: semantics and name calling was in jest and rather obvious considering my post in reply to xoxoxowhat'shislips was in fact arguing semantics and I in fact referred to someone as a Schadenfrau (lightly poking at what I considered light internet fascism--also in jest so uncurl your hosiery, Sycamore)

Hey Hay (cool, eh), why dont you relax a bit and look over some other threads?

Image of the day has some great pics and there are lots of other topics and discussions going on. Most of them arent offensive to anyone.

Check it out.

I just might do that, Slang.
Thanks.

ETA: are you from Canada as well? I noticed the "eh":)

And throw a pic of yourself on the image gallery so we can shop it into something really funny too, while yer at it.

Oh shit! Yer from Cananda?! Fuck off you hoser!!


Just kidding :) No I'm not from C. Check the profiles of the users to see if there is any info listed

Dude, it's TAKE off, you hoser!
Hee. Ah, Strange Brew.

Not necessarily. After all, John Hinkley, Jr. hadn't had any interaction with Jody Foster or Ronald Reagan or Martin Scorese (in the form of his artistic expression in Taxi Driver) ... and yet all three were entwined in his thought processes as having a close relationship with him and deep impact on his life, and developed his mission from these delusional beliefs.

I just figured it out.

HaywardNelson is Nic Name's wife. Who else is an easily offended retard from the 51st state?

The fault lies not in the words themselves, but in the people.

Your belief does not a fact make.

According to dictionary.com, CUNT is an offensive word.

cunt ( P ) Pronunciation Key (knt)
n. Vulgar Slang
The female genital organs.
Sexual intercourse with a woman.

Offensive. Used as a disparaging term for a woman.
Used as a disparaging term for a person one dislikes or finds extremely disagreeable.


The word was not originally offensive, it originally meant "sheath" or "hollow place" but that does not change the fact that the word has a negative meaning currently.

The words are offensive to some people. I doubt you would be okay with someone calling your mother a cunt, or another person you cared about.

As for retard, the word is a rude reference to a real disability. It is not considered a polite term. Earlier, someone said they were "watching the retards fight." As a noun, retard means "A slowing down or hindering of progress; a delay" or it is used as a slur. The definition clearly doesn't fit in the sentence, so it was used as a slur. I don't enjoy the kind of relationship with whoever said it that allows a playful "aw, you're retarded."

When I said there is something wrong with the words, this is exactly what I meant by it: The words are considered by society to be derogatory, negative terms.

I'm sorry that some of you are having difficulty acknowledging that the words are generally considered offensive. What's the point in arguing this? Are you trying to say that whoever called me a cunt and a retard was not name-calling, was not trying to offend me? There was a disagreement, but prior to the use of those words it had been carried on in a relatively adult way. Especially considering that this is written communication and you have time to think about what you post, if all that someone come up with is "cunt" or "retard," that's a pretty sad comment on what you have to say.

You can quit playing guessing games. I'm not anyone you know.

You can call me whatever you want to, I'm not the one who is going to look callous and ignorant by your lack of respect for what may or may not offend other people.

I don't think everyone would be so defensive if you all really thought this was an okay thing to do. Unless it's normal to gather up your torches and pitchforks every time someone new disagrees with the consensus.

Ok, I'll call you a blue balloon instead. Or a lampshade.

Can we move on to something interesting or funny?

So wait ... it's an ACTUAL FNG that's being an asshat here?

Well, if you're going to call me a blue balloon I just might have to spend the night in tears. :)

How about "lampshade"? Can we move on, lampshade?

Nevermind, I'm apparently too much of a lampshade to get that photo to post.

prolly too large. Check the properties for the size. It needs to be under 100k er so.

[quote]Originally posted by HaywardNelson

Quote:

Regarding stating opinion as fact, I feel it is a great waste of time to preface everything with "In my opinion." Clearly, I am writing it, thus it is my opinion.

No, not ALWAYS is it that clear. It may be TO YOU, but not to everyone. I'm not saying that you have to say "in my opinion" every single time, but to qualify some statements would help in many conversations.



Precisely, so why should anyone have to guess what another is implying/saying/expressing?



Then people will continue to call you on it, and act accordingly.

MAJOR SNIPPAGE!

You feel that it is a fact....mmmkay! :confused:

Hayward, you're a joke. You can't be taken seriously. Here's why:

You said that. In response to a sarcastic comment. There are two ways that phrase is likely to be interpreted (in my experience, anyway): serious or sarcastic.

If it's serious, then essentially what you are saying is "You are a Nazi." Calling someone a Nazi over a single comment on a message board is... well, extreme, I would say.

It could also be sarcastic. Fair enough.

jeni then responds as follows:

And you say:

Now, some sarcasm picks up pretty well in written text (is there another type of text, or are you trying to use as many words as possible?), and one of those is your sarcastic "Whooops, my bad." I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but sarcasm tends to make people think you're condescending.

Anyway... you're pretty clearly using sarcasm in the two posts of yours I've quoted, once before and once after you said "I thought it was common knowlege that sarcasm doesn't carry well in written text" - after jumping on someone else for being sarcastic!

In other words, "Sarcasm is cool as long as it's me, and obviously everyone will understand what I mean - but when other people do it, I can't be counted on to figure out whether or not they're being sarcastic." Obviously, then, you're totally justified in calling someone a Nazi.

And you wonder why people laugh at you?

This is a board for grown ups. Why don't you find another place to play? Or perhaps you could start making some sense. Your call.

Um...because grown-ups *usually* call people cunts and retards.
Hmmmm...

Hhmm...you guys are still at this?

( Dave, it's smee, Slang.....could you tell? Have I made your ignore list yet?)