It's rape if she feels like it was rape, or if she was mentally incapacitated in a manner that she couldn't make a decision.

Now, it's statutory rape no matter how you look at it, but statutory rape and rape are really two completely different things.

If the "victim" of it isn't furious about it, why should you be?

She didn't ask for advice.

Oh so what did she ask for? Another baby?

Oh right..I forget..sorry..Another chance..right that's it. So how's it working so far then? Oh right not too well...

Hmm can I give some advice on that? Yes? Ok ....

Get yourself and your life in shape without pathetic excuses like "He won't buy them!" and you'll get some respect for it..till then...enjoy

I was in mid-reply when I read Dave's last post. That's exactly what I was going to say, but a hell of a lot more succinct.

She was 12, he was 19, so it's Statutory Rape, which isn't Rape. As the story is told, both were willing parties by the time it happened. Yes, 12 is too young to be making that sort of decision, but the guy didn't pin her down and force himself upon her. She decided to give it a go.

Hell, my story of the first time isn't so different, except I wasn't quite that young. A beautiful older woman wanted a piece of Pastrami, and though I resisted at first, she talked me into it eventually. As I look back on it, I'm not furious at her, because it was my own stupid mistake, and I was of sound mind when I made it. Plus, she was a very hot thirty-something. But regardless of the circumstances, I wouldn't play the victim card, either. Was I taken advantage of? Yes, but only because I allowed myself to be.

FileNotFound... dude... you're bashing on a 17 year old girl who is openly admitting to her mistakes. Such comments are probably not helpful or welcome. You don't have to like her, and don't have to sympathize with her, but you don't have to whip her with an emotional bike chain, either. Christ.

Not 'furious', just adamant.

This is the comment that raised a huge red flag for me

"It was new years eve. He was drunk. I was young, stupid and curious, .at first I said no, but he kept on. No I wasn't abused as a childd. Beleive me I regret it, alot. He was 19."

She regrets it, but I don't think it was her fault. I feel sorry for her that she was taken advantage of by someone a whole lot older than her that should have known better.

That's what I'm talking about. And if it's not rape by her definition of things, more power to her, but I don't want her daughter to grow up thinking that to be treated that way is okay. And unless April learns what rape 'is', she will.

It's not something to say 'whatever' about and shrug off.

SHOW OFF!

fnf....ease up, big fella.

damn, i wish i had been paying attention to this thread today....lots o fun in here!

dave! how did you become so wise in the ways of the world? you are right on about this, and your sentiments are clearly motivated by a strong sense of justice. hats off to you, my friend.

I would not think you particularly LIKE April based on the previous r2d2/cutie/whatever that last one was thread, yet you defend her when fnf is out of line with his attack.

PS. this sounds like I'm sucking up, but I'm not....just givin the man his props....

Have I just entered the 5th dimension?

Yes, this is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. Age of Aquarius...

I wish, because that would mean you weren't in this dimension, posting stupid shit on the Cellar.

Ok, so you never bothered with BC (at least before the pregnancy, but you say you do *now*, after the fact).

So, I'm reading that you wanted a baby at 17? Is this correct? :confused:

Is this a *special* thread? I can sympathize with the kid's story and situation but this isn't a group hug or therapy session. It's the internet, available to the world. More specifically the Cellar, where anyone can post their thoughts. If a person posts details of their private life, they have to accept what comes from the public, be it adoration or criticism.

In this case I think everyone will agree, she made at least one sizable mistake. The key is "made"... past tense. There's no do-overs so the real issue is the future.

My 2cents? April, you're a dumb kid and you really screwed up. Now, it sounds like you're trying to get your shit together and I really, really hope you do. For your sake and the baby's sake. It'll be hard and often discouraging but you can do it. I think the biggest mistake you could make now is another baby, so please be careful. :)

HEY!! guess what? NOT EVERY RAPE VICTIM FEELS UP TO REPORTING IT! not only is being raped a terrible and humiliating experience, but telling people about it is a traumatizing experience as well.

this is something you will NEVER understand unless you have been through it, not even if your wife or mother has been through it. you will NEVER understand being raped, and the slew of shitty emotions that come with it, so don't try to convince someone that it is "responsible" to go to an authority, when they are NOT THINKING CLEARLY and are definitely not worrying about telling the cops about the situation. rape is a very personal matter, and it is something that the victim will NEVER get over. not everyone is emotionally detached enough to go straight to the police about the issue.

even if april doesn't consider her situation rape, it is not your place to scold her for not reporting it.

I have to go with Juju here...this thread is kinda like a Dali painting.

Interestingly enough, April's current boyfriend is also guilty of statutory rape, as the age of consent is 17 in Texas (and there's no mathematical way she could have conceived the child at 17).

Statutory rape laws mean well, but if you have two underage people consenting (like 15 and 16), why the hell bother? It should be used solely to prosecute dirty old men and women for taking advantage of the young, IMO.

April...if all this is legitimate...I do applaud you for staying in school and for having some goals for yourself. The next few years will probably be the biggest uphill battle of your life, but once you have reached your goals, I think you'll feel a great deal of satisfaction and achievement.

Having said this, your previous comments about lack of sexual education disturb me. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't taught in school, and maybe your parents didn't teach you anything either (lord knows my parents didn't), but can you honestly tell me that you haven't heard enough about the need to protect yourself from STDs and pregnancy? TV? Radio? Friends? Come on!

And then you tell us about the condom deal...that is simply irresponsible. You may love your boyfriend to death and may even want to marry him someday...but given that you're still so young, you should be protecting yourself from the possibility of an STD...because you just never know. And by the same token, unless you've had an STD/HIV test, you could have gotten something from the previous guy you were with. Condoms are cheap (even if you buy them at a drugstore) and easily available...always better to be safe than sorry.

(Actually, guys should totally use condoms to their advantage, as they can be helpful in delaying climax.)

In the end, just make sure you take care of yourself and your baby...be responsible.

(And make sure you're worshipping the ground your mom walks on for being so kind as to help take care of your baby.)

Yeah, I think it's a troll.

I wouldn't say she's necessarily a troll...but she's given enough reason to stir suspicion, at least in me.

Seems that at least you are recognizing on some level that this was not a good thing. At least I hope you recognize this.

No way would someone admit they'd had sex at 12 to a total stranger. At the very, very least, they would lie and say they were 16 or something.

It's just human nature. No one answers invasive questions like that.

You'd be really surprised at what people tell total strangers, Juju.

Sometimes that actually allows one to be more open and forthcoming than they would with someone who knows them well.

With someone that you already know, you have more concerns about the impression you are making rather than that of someone you never expect to meet.

Thank you, Mr. Ph dot Fucking D in Psychology.

What wolf said, only with "fuck" used more frequently. Just because you watch Dr. Phil (the fucking charlatan) doesn't mean you have any qualifications whatsoever to make broad assumptions like that. I've witnessed total strangers being open hundreds of times because they don't have to worry about alienating "friends". Why do you think I can tell everyone about cleaning my ass? Why do you think Tony is so open about his divorce - to total strangers? How do you explain that, Mr. Fucking Smarty Pants?

Some days I'm sure you're retarded.

I'm just giving my opinion -- you're welcome to disagree.

Here's another opinion -- you're pathetic.

Here's another opinion - your daughter's ugly.

You weren't stating it as opinion, asshole. You were stating it as fact.

In other words, eat shit. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Go read a fucking book. Maybe if you get smart, you can stop making pizzas and start supporting your family.

I hope you treat your daughter the way you treat other people. Piggy will grow up to be a real piece of work.

Why exactly are you behaving like this?

Because you can't fucking read?

I just posted it. You are stating <b>as fact</b> something that is <b>demonstrably false</b> like you are an authority on the subject - when you are <b>very clearly not</b>.

When has this <b>ever</b> gotten <b>anything</b> but this type of reaction from me?

If you post bullshit, and I know better, I will call you on it. If you post it and are calling someone else a liar in the process, I will be equally discourteous to you. And if you want to go personal, then I'm all fucking game.

Perhaps a better question is "Why do I post shit about which I know nothing? Why don't I research what the fuck I'm talking about?" Did you forget to eat today?

*snicker*

Well, I intended it to be a statement of opinion, which I thought would be obvious given the context.

Generally, when I say something, it is by default my opinion unless I clarify it with the phrase "this is a fact".

Well generally, most people indicate opinion with "I think" or "I feel" or "In my experience". Not like this:

There is no qualifier to indicate that it's an opinion. It is written like a fact. "Niggers steal bikes" is written like a fact. "I think niggers steal bikes" is written like an opinion.

So in addition to the Psychology book you obviously need to pick up, join me in re-learning English sentence construction.

yeah, i don't mean to take sides here, but...i'm going to have to side with dave on this one.

Most of what I discuss here is my opinion. If I qualified all of it, it'd get old and redundant real quick. So, I am content to simply clarify my facts instead.

You should know by now that I am always open to the possibility being wrong.

open to what possibility being wrong?

so april - this boyfriend / father is living with you and mom? is he of the mindset that this situation will go on forever, or has he wised up and realized that he needs to do something to rectify the situation? (baby products/food/rent are all way more expensive than condoms)

The guy that " raped" me IS NOT the father of my child. This guys name was Eduardo. My boyfriends name is Dany. Eduardo is long gone and probably dead or in Mexico. FNF ok you have a problem with me I'm not going to cry or be sad forever. When Dany learned of this he kicked Eduardos ass. What other questions are there?

Oh and yeah I wanted a baby at 17. Yeah there'll be alot of smartass comments on that one I'm just waiting for them.

i just asked one

My comments are not 'smartassed', purely questions to get a better understanding of things...

If you're 17, and are not able to completely take care of yourself (ie living on your own, away from your parents, supporting yourself and working for a living) why would you want a child that you will need to support for 18-20 years?

I could understand if you had already graduated from high school and were working at a job (of any type), but I can't fathom why someone would want to burden themselves more than they already are. (Or expect others to help with something they're not obligated to assist with)

April, I personally don't judge you for what you did, it's your life, but I hope that perhaps you could shed some light on why girls want to have children so young. (There has to be a reason - it's becoming nearly epidemic)

Dagney

All my friends that had babies those were supposed "acciendents". I wanted a baby only b/c I thought they were cute. I didn't consider the responsibility of one. Yeah I made a mistake but I'm taking care of her, she is mine and I will do what I need to do.

The teen birth rate has shown a decline since the 1950s.
Link.

FINALLY someone with a positive attitude. Thanks!

How could you possibly classify my last few posts as anything other than a "positive attitude"?

Not you but most people sorry.

People like FNF.

Just don't go out get a puppy cause they're cute. I'd hate to see yet another poor dog find itself in a dysfunctional family that loses interest in it once it looses it's cuteness.

By the way, have you ever taken an IQ test? I'm really curious, so far I think it's about half of GWBush...


Oh and the whole "teen birth rate continues to decline thing" it's not really a positive comment. It's more of an offtopic thread. The fact that teen birthrates are declining means kids are growing more responsible in general. You are not one of those kids.

You seeing this as positive is misguided at best. Thats like me saying "Number of speeders has declined! Go me!!" considering that I generaly go 20 over as long as the conditions allow...

These statistics have nothing to do with you and shouldn't make you feel warm and fuzzy inside.

No I have not why? Send me one I give you the score.










Yeah right anyways.....

That was sarcasm.

April, if you click the "profile" button on one of FileNotFound's posts (it's near the bottom and on the left) and then, at the bottom of the page, in the dark purple background area, there's a link that says "Add FileNotFound to Your Ignore List" - you'd probably be better off clicking that link and following through with the instructions. His intent is to harrass you. He takes issue with you as a person, not with any particular habit you have, so it's probably best to just block him out.

Dave,
are you being nice to April because you think you might be able to bang her? Or do you just honestly feel like she needs defending cuz she is obviously ill equipped to defend herself from the sharks in these waters? be honest.

This is why.

You're right it has little to do with April. It was a response to Dagney...

The "epidemic" is probably that more teens are keeping their babies.

Ya know, trying to convince the girl she was raped if she wasn't (in the real, coercive sense, not statuatory rape) is not doing her any favors.

As for wanting a baby at 17... seems to be a common form of craziness (using the laymen's definition, mind you) afflicting young women. Maybe it's a leftover survival trait, I don't know.

It happened a lot at my high school, certainly (which had a day care, used by students, that some of my classmates went to when they were kids -- teen pregnancy is NOT a new phenomenon). Including to girls who sure as hell should have known better.

Leave the kid out of it, Dave.

(and you know I don't ordinarily get in the way of a curmudgeonly rant. Take it out on Juju, not his offspring. At last not until she has her own account and can give back as good as she gets.)

I, uh, see what you're saying, but I feel the point had to be made: personal attacks are not appropriate. It was extreme (and I don't actually find his daughter ugly), but if he wants to go there, I'm willing to accomodate.

(You'll notice that I questioned his credentials for making a statement like that but did <b>not</b> get personal until he did.)

I'm not questioning your making a personal attack, just so long as it's against the person with whom you are actually having the discussion/disagreement.

Your personal attacks tend to be rather amusing and inventive, and are an essential part of your personal charm and character.

Dave, I think you've found your tagline for the week.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dave, I also disagree with Juju's statement. However, I don't think he was coming across as him playing the expert.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Also, insulting his daughter and saying you didn't escalate until he did is ludicrous. He tageted only you, you aimed elsewhere. Insulting a persons family member is beneath you. What's more, insulting a child demeans you. It's an attack on someone completely incapable of defending itself. I know you're better than that. So, the question is why does Juju in particular piss you off so much? I've seen you come down on a lot of people around here. Never like you've come down on Juju of a few occasions. Now, insulting his newborn? What's up?

juju and I have been through this dance about a hundred times before. If you had any idea of the history and some of the things he's said to me, it would make a lot more sense.

The point is not "His daughter is ugly." The point is to be extreme. He took a discussion and turned it into "you're pathetic", which was an escalation that I did not appreciate. I returned fire. If juju wants to go on the personal, then I will too. I have stated it many times before, and nothing is going to change that. Whether or not I went "too far", I don't care. The conversation got back on track mighty fucking quick, didn't it?

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hmm, intersting... but I'm not buying. I've seen you hit people harder than he hit you more times than I care to think about. Also, people have said far worse and you've never resorted to that kind of tactic.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I suppose part of my confusion comes from everyone, except you, that I've spoken to from this board thinks the guy is pretty mellow. He's definately a sore spot for you. I was just wondering why.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Though, I must qualify that he seems to like pissing you off.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hey Juju, I've asked Dave why you piss him off. Why do you namecall Dave when I don't think you've done so to any one else on the board? (with the possible exception of Radar)

Well, I'm glad I don't have to justify myself to you then.

Donald knows better. He caught me in a mood where I was not feeling like putting up with any of his shit. If he wants to play, I'll play. It's as simple as that. Whether or not you "buy" it is irrelevant. It happened, it changed the course of the conversation, and it's been made clear, in no uncertain terms, that I will fire back. If it means that one fewer pair can keep from trading ad hominem blows, hooray.

Would you rather I said:

Here's another opinion: I think <b>you're</b> pathetic, and with your pizza slinging job, you're going to have a hard time providing for that family of yours, almost guaranteeing that your daughter grows up as fucked up as you are.

Is that better?

(What I mean by "Is that better?" is "If I apologize for the remark about his daughter and change my original posted opinion to that, will you shut the fuck up?")

('Cause that's all I really want, so I can stop reading this thread and get back to my intense dislike for the other retards on the Cellar.)

Oh, and I should clarify that I actually like juju a whole lot when he's not being a fuckface. He <b>is</b> pretty mellow when he's not starving himself. I guess he just disappoints me when he lashes out like that, because like I said, he knows better. I try to whip him into shape.

To further clarify, it probably annoys me more when he does it because I want to like him, but when he's a dick to me, I've found that the quickest way to get him to stop being a dick is to smash him to pieces with verbal attacks. I want to have actual <b>discussions</b> with him, and his personal attacks get in the way. Whereas with LUVBUGZ and OnyxCougar, I know they have nothing valuable to add, so I don't hit them as hard.

It's a corrective action.

I don't the 'pathetic' comment was an escalation at all. It was simply meant as a characterization of his attitude in the immediately preceding post. I felt he was very rude, and I think it's rather pathetic that he feels he needs to communicate that way.

I'm not interested in 'escalating' or 'one-upping' him. My ego doesn't rely on that. But I do stand by my statement.

-OR-

advanced asshat rehab

Well, whatever dude. If you need help putting her through college, let me know. I've always got miscellaneous chores that need to be done.

Just a forewarning... If he asks you to polish his knob, it's not what you think! Don't ask, don't ask.