The only reason Communism doesn't kill as many people now is that innovations from the west have made a better life possible.

It appears the killing that resulted from internal power struggles has abated and China has embarked on a new path. A quest for wealth and increased standard of living. Inevitably there will develop a class of yuppies that are envied and disliked. It will be interesting to see if the newly affluent, quest for influence also.

UnderToad,

All nationa have a great deal of blood on their hands. We kill a lot of Vietnamese, our proxy armies killed a lot of people in Central and South AMerica, we killed quite a few people in Japan, we killed millions in the middle passage, we killed a hundred thousand fighting ourselves, we killed most of the Native AMericans, and we keep killing.

You cannot judge the worth of a nation by the amount of blood that was spilled in it's creation. If you did, none of the nations on Earth would be worth a damn - except maybe Greenland.

ScottSolomon, what you say is right
 

We don't kill people as you say. In war time no one government can asure that they kill no one for gaining the war. The new country was born in struggle ans death.

Greenland isn't a nation--it's a self-governing territory of Denmark.

What a marvelous excuse.

Touche

What is the deal UT? Are you really under the impression that this nation was accepted bye the Native population our of the virtue of it's ideology? Were their deaths any more valuable than the Chinese that died in the Boxer Rebellion or the Opium War?

In the struggle to cast of the yoke of imperialism, be it Chinese, English, or Japanese, people will generally accept the actions of the powerful leader - even if the leader is vicious or dishonest. As long as the end justified the means ( Bush supporters should be familiar with this by now ).

Before the foundation of the DHinese communist party, china was the site of numerous wars and periodic rebellions. The Japanese actions in their occupation of Manchuria led to the eventual resistance to the Japanese. This notably culminated in the Nanjing Massacre where 300,000 Chinese were killed, and 20,000 women raped. The massacre helped to solidify the peasant population - that only wanted security and protection - into cooperating fully with the Communist party.

Eventually after WW2 the cokllaboration broke down and a bloody civil war gripped the nation. The CCP eventually won the civil war and went on a massive repressive bend to try to solidify it's base of power - and remove terrorists.

This was the birth of the People's Republic of China. It was a nation fought for - and killed for - by peasants that believed a strong man that knew how to beat the Japanese.

The place may have many faults, but their history is no less painful of fraught with peril than our nations history. If we simply see the world through ideological goggles, we will never be able to see the true structure of history.

You must get dizzy spinning that hard.

Your head must hurt from being stuck in the sand so long.

UT,

Why don't you educate me then? Why do you think that America was not born from pain and blood - and why do you think that the Chinese must be monsters because their nation was born from pain and blood?

Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and only annoys the pig.

Will u two go boxing instead of discussion ?:D

As SS say and we know , CCP liberated we Chinese, led we to wealth and happy. We consider the early-times CCP as our savior. CCP has changed a lot during recent years, it no longer insist on "Planning Economic" , it educate us less and less "Socialism are superior to Capitalism" and so on.Though there are a lot curruption inside the CCP ---- it's inevitable for most Parties in the world --- , we confess it intead of cover everything like USSR did, that's what we can do and we have done it . No matter how we become what we are , we just want go on and on .

It is a good time now
 

We have time to have coffe,just discuss. I like..

Credit where credit is due UT, i know Mark Twain when i see it.

curiosity.
 

If I lived in the Guangdong province, what would be the best way to get around if I don't have a car?

Bicycle. :cool:

What is the best way to get around Orange County CA if you don't have a car? Bicycle. Another example of 'they are us' - once we eliminate the spin of political bias and the agenda of suspicion.

Bicycle? Orange County? You're kidding, right? You'd be dead from the exhaust fumes or run over by a Volvo in 15 minutes! :greenface

Bicycle:I like bicycle,but they are so easy to be stolen :mg:
Bus:cheap(less then 50c),they can take you to most places,but may be slow and crowded,If you can't read Chinese,you will lose your head when trying to find out your destination from the bus sign :)
Underground:cheap and fast,but only in some large cities.
Taxi:everywhere.3-5$ you can cross the whole city.Of course,you should successfully let the driver know the exact place you want to go at first :cool: