Very wise, UT.

The entire economy of India is worth $2 trillion. A president with little intelligence and who almost lost his reelection not only did massive damage to the American economy. He even spent almost $3 trillion on a war that had no purpose - to kill hundreds of thousands (and their leader) who were not a threat. And massacred 5000 American servicemen in the process. He had little power to do anything productive. But he clearly did massive damage to America, to its credibility, so so many world wide treaties, to America's respect all over the world, and made it clear to Putin that it is best to not trust America.

America can be so stupid as to elect another George Jr with names such as Cruz or Trump.

For someone without that much power, he still managed to destroy maintenance of most everything in America, construction of new schools, infrastructure, innovations, new markets, and so many other things that made America great. While turning a potential surplus into a massive national debt. Fortunately he had so little power that he did not put Social Security into the stock market. So there were limits to his destruction.

That all required, and got, congressional approval.

Which President were you talking about?

If Trump becomes president and them becomes the idea of what America stands for, I'm pretty sure you're all standing in shit up to your armpits.

Australia has had some pretty crappy options leader wise over the last few years, but I take some small comfort in the fact that we can't destroy the world through our mistakes.

He is creating such divisiveness within your community that it's frightening to watch. How it can even be legal for him to tell people to punch other people for whatever he thinks is right just boggles my mind.

He's going to make Sarah Palin the Ambassador to Australia.

This!

Ha!

Wait, is this joke on them or us?

Make no mistake. That divisiveness has been breeding for three decades.

This is the steam valve letting off pressure. You aren't seeing the explosion from it. It's still building up... faster than ever.

"I can't hate Donald Trump" oh but it's required now; it's the whole point; we are watching the people in a glorious celebration of hate, and they LOVE it. Season of hate, people are really having a ball wallowing in it. Orgasm of hate.

It's fucking disgusting.

POLITICS IS NOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BUT HATE.

THIS IS WHY I'M OUT OF IT. IT'S KILLING US.

Many who know violence justifies a belief have not increased. But this is what the Republican insiders did not understand. Limbaugh, Hannity, Paul, (even Sarah Palin), etc were recruiting these people with their rhetoric. Suddenly a concentration of easily manipulated mindsets are tapped by politicians who preach childish rhetoric to a group inspired only by emotions. Republican insiders declared an 'all hands on deck' reaction to derail this threat. Too little too late. A large body of Republicans know punching someone in the face is justified. They are now collected in the Party that wants to stifle stem cell research, health and environment regulations, improved international relations, solutions to the Middle East, any spending even on infrastructure and other need national development, international treaties, and even the closing of Guantanamo. They love extraordinary rendition, big guns, more Middle East wars, gestapo torture tactics, hate of minorities and immigrants, and both Trump and Cruz.

A 70 year old man punched a demonstrator who was being removed from a Trump rally by the police. The police charged that demonstrator with violence. News video so exposed this attitude that police had to go out three days later to arrest that attacker. Emotion justified their response. New video force them to act as logical adults.

A U of Virginia professor describes what attracts these type. "Jesse Helms understood before anyone else that the proverbial angry white male feels the most aggrieved, and is therefore the most likely to vote." A Senator that promoted racism, hate, and obtainsd power by defining 'good vs evil' was always popular among these types. People who fear. People who can be told what to fear; therefore know it must be true - facts be damned. The Republican party has now become a magnet for these types.

Delaware Republicans even disposed of their long time and popular Senator to vote for a 'witch'. The emotional are that easily manipulated.

Same people know violence and insults proves one is right. Their numbers have not increased. But they were collected by a Republican party that did not realize (or care) who they were recruiting. In the tradition of Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond, Trent Lott, and the Council of Conservative Citizens, they are flocking to rhetoric that even admired a Georgia state flag that promoted hate.

These adults, who are still children, have always existed in same numbers. But having been concentrated in an organization that can mobilize them, suddenly a divisiveness that has always existed has become apparent.

Republican party insiders did not realize what they had created. Are shocked that fear and hate inspires these people. Divisiveness has not increased. It has only become concentrated where it can be tapped for political gain. It always existed.

That would be awesome. Australians would have a field day with her. Maybe she can look off the east coast and see NZ. Then we can all give her shit for saying so.

OK, maybe I mis-spoke. Trump has given license to all the red neck, KKK, violence loving freaks to act on their previously somewhat censured ideas of what's acceptable in good company. If I were a black person, or any minority group I'd be running out to buy a gun right now because sure as shit there'll be an increase in hate crimes once Trump is elected.

I know it was said about Bush, but this time it really is true. I see a future where minority groups are rounded up and placed in 'camps' and anyone who disagrees with this process will be shot either legally or not.

You lot are in so much trouble. You're just inviting Russia and China to save the world from you.

Oh, and while the rest of the world has it attention diverted, who knows what the hell Islamic extremists and North Korea will get up to.

He's going to make Chuck Norris an Ambassador-at-Large.

It is. People need to check themselves. I'd say folks love Trump because he scares the hell out of people and the left loves hating him and his supporters cuz its nice and self righteous. The demographic reality that whites will soon be the largest plurality of people but not the majority is making people crazy. I'd rather we accept reality and find our way through but it looks like it'll be nothing but ugliness for a while.

It looks like we want divisive candidates.

Seems like the favorable/unfavorable lines should be mirror images of each other. Hillary's are not, especially years ago. I wonder if previous polls had a lot of "I don't know who she is" answers, and now everyone knows who she is.

Learn from history. Observe Silvio Berlusconi to fear what these types can do if elected ... and reelected. When convicted of crimes, he simply had laws changed.

Another example was Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. Also popular when emotions prove a presidential candidate superior.

This is America. In America you can't even pull off a two-bit burglary of DC office space without losing all of your POTUS power and having to resign in deep disgrace.

That POTUS did so many things that even his supporters finally had enough. Watergate was simply a straw that broke the camel's back. How many tens of thousands of American servicemen did he massacre on a war that he and Henry Kissinger agreed could not be won? Done only for one reason. He did not want to be the first American president to lose a war. A Watergate burglary was minuscule by comparison.

We know that Trump can promote violence and mayhem even in his pep rallies. Clearly a crime. And nobody will prosecute him. So that must make him presidential material.

OK, well, I think everyone else got my point.

You know what's scary? What's scary is the millions of Trump supporters who don't even realize they've been co opted by an unreal Reality show that might very well affect their actual Reality.

What gets me is how the #1 explanation given for supporting him is that he "tells it like it is", when he is the poster child for this book (warning - potentially NSFW book title).

He tells it like simple minded people who cannot be bothered to do more than vote from their gullets, absent of facts, insight or any rational thought process, want to hear. He's "a chicken in every pot" candidate for the new Millenium. A wall in front of every Mexican. Permission to just go crazy and kick the shit of out of anyone who doesn't agree with you. He's a crazy SOB.

You know, there's one other outcome of Trump being president that has just occured to me, and that is that there could well be a military coup or uprising of the people if the liberal minded people were pushed far enough into a corner.

That would be interesting to see (not in a blood and guts way. I just mean in how it might play out).

Still glad I'm not an American at the moment though. None of the options are good.

Liberals are, as a rule, rather laid back and such. It's the Right Wing NeoCon folks who are more likely to spawn a revolution, at least, in this country.

Now, back to my drink and bong.

Yes I know Els, but if things get bad enough, people will fight. Maybe it wont be the liberals. Maybe it'll be a faction of the conservatives. Or the minority groups that will be marginalised (at the least). Who knows. My point is you lot might be planting the seeds for another civil war if you elect Trump.

Trump has proved everything we've claimed about America's freedoms was delusion. He's exposed the ugly underbelly we've always denied.

I was trying to imagine Trump as president and him dealing with the glacial pace of bureaucracy and wondered if, like in the Apprentice, he would start screaming at senators, congressmen, other staffers, "You're fired!"

Then I imagined that he would eventually fire the house, senate, and cabinet and restock the vacant positions with bright eyed apprentices with no political connections what so ever and for a brief moment I fantasized that America might just survive its oligarchic faux democracy.

Then I realized I was driving and had dozed off.

gotta have a dream

If I remember correctly, those who had a dream did not run for president. (And still got shot.)

Really interesting Washington Post article on how thinking about death (not just through threats of terrorism, but the concept of mortality in general) makes people support Donald Trump more.

(Click the first result on the page to avoid the paywall.)

Hmm... I'm closer than probably any of you, and I don't like him.
I think his appeal is people disgusted with politics and the government will clutch at any candidate that says something, anything, they can agree with.

Manny orders vanilla, Moe orders chocolate, and Jack orders strawberry.
Trump say I like Neapolitan (vanilla, chocolate and strawberry).
Manny, Moe, and Jack all think, he's like me.

Yeah, but you don't dwell on it. You're a ray of sunshine to everyone you meet. ;)

That there, that's a weird connection.

(he does have an undead look to him though)

The key to a successful Trump campaign is having a VP running mate that people can have confidence in just in case Trump goes over the top as President and gets himself impeached. With that kind of insurance, people will take a chance. If Trump picks a mini-me or lapdog, as he has done in business, he's most likely all washed up in politics.

Clinton doesn't have designs on a strong VP. Anyone who would fit the bill either wouldn't want to work for her; or, she wouldn't want them ... she wouldn't want anyone who would butt heads with Bill either.

Either The Donald has to step up to the plate with a two person team that people can expect a good game from even if one is ejected; or, Club of One Hillary has to foul out (e.g. prosecuted for the email scandal) before the public at large will be drawn into the do-nothing GOP ballpark.

If Trump screws up his VP selection (you can take the candidate out of Wall Street; but, you can't take Wall Street out of the candidate) AND Clinton is prosecuted for mishandling government information (like Petraeus); then, I'm writing in McBoatface (polls never lie)!

Yesterday during his ongoing meltdown, Trump conducted a conference call with his surrogates, and told them to double down on attacking the Trump University judge. One of the surrogates (Jan Brewer?) said that she had received a memo the day before instructing her not to discuss Trump U. To which Trump purportedly replied:

Trump starts a fire, pours gas on it, then throws his own team under the nearest bus. Classy guy. I can't see any VP candidate or cabinet member this guy picks not suffering the same fate.

Never forget how an extremist obtains office. Preach to adults who are still children. These adults only 'know' from what they feel - their emotions. Facts are only obtained later to justify their feelings.

'I am a liberal' or 'I am a conservative' means entertaining emotions - not thinking like an adult.

Trump is not preaching to moderates. Moderates do not have a conclusion until after facts are learned. Trump does not need moderates. More than enough extremists (people who need not waste time learning facts) exist to get him nominated.

Worse, view the Republican finalists. Most are extremists. More than enough 'adult who are still children' existed to support other extremists - including Ted Cruz.

Many adults only 'know' from what they feel - just like a child. A third grader respects another who is good at insulting. That is a child making a decision from his 'feelings'. This party primary season has demonstrated how many 'children who are easily brainwashed' exist in both parties.

They only represent what we the people wanted. Let's not forget another lesson. How many had so much contempt for the American soldier as to waste 5000 in Iraq for no purpose? There are that many adults who still think like children. Hitler called them his brown shirts.

... and the other asshole voted for it.
All that being said, Trump is still better than the political whore behind door #2.

Yeeaah, well, I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there. Donald J. Trump is a politically uneducated, narcissistic, racist, and immature jackass!

OF course he is. Still ... better than the other asshat.

The other asshat is a female but that is absolutely the only thing that makes her different from 70 years of exactly the same polanimal© who have gone before. While that might be distasteful, it is a known quantity.

Hillary just wants it so she can give Bill a Presidential pardon. :haha:

50/50, she might have him executed.

What if she named him as VP? Everyone would shit themselves.

That would be fun to watch.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016

I don't know because I don't follow it and I don't talk to people about it but it really seems to me that this guy has broken the code.

Griff, that seems pretty accurate.
UT, it's true. Think of all the free press Trump has gained from howls of righteous indignation to his posturing. I hate black jellybeans. That's racist!

Explain...logically.
'

That makes sense. A lot of defenses of the Donald seem to start at non-pc. I think I understand that people resent adjusting their language... I don't quite understand the label pc all the time though.

A common thread in UT's citation is that Political Correctness means learning facts before having a conclusion. Many before Trump used these same techniques. Racism in the deep south meant a Governor could be popular by simply inspiring people with emotions. A 'them verses us' emotion is a powerful and successful tool to manipulate many who want to be told how to think with only soundbytes. Those evil 'politically correct' people want facts and reasons - not emotion. Those 'politically correct' people were labeled intellectuals or 'do goody liberals' or 'righteous atheists'. All labels to inspire more emotion. The 'them' did not use emotions to see what was really true. Just another way of inspiring followers with a 'them verses us' mentality.

Sen Joseph McCarthy used a same concept to become popular and powerful. His followers also knew he was right because emotion said so. Who were the enemies of McCarthyism? People who first learned facts. That required thinking logically - contrary to what McCarthy supporters did.

How ironic that George Wallace would endorse integration. Was he a racist? Maybe not. But once emotion would no longer inspire supporters, he had to change tactics. Ironically it worked.

Since McCarthy and others did it so long ago, then many forget how easily power can be obtained by inspiring the emotional. By preaching to people who find power in their feelings. Who regard conclusions based in first learning facts as 'political correctness'.

Political Correctness is not facts, it's majority(and sometime minority) consensus of what is polite and proper behavior in public. It's about imposing the majority opinion on everyone, which is as un-American in the eyes of the founding fathers as you can get. They took great pains to write the Constitution in a way to prevent doing that legally, especially by the government.

I think Griff wanted was the dictionary definition.

-- Oxford Dictionaries

I meant that when I hear complaints from the right about pc it sounds like they want public officials to put those people in their place by using the N word or going back to denouncing homosexuality in press conferences. The reality is we all have the right to use the words we want but everyone else still has the right to label us for the asshole we are when our words expose beliefs that the wider culture no longer accepts.

Obviously it gets out of line on college campuses because campuses are experimental places where kids experiment with ideas, humans are largely stupid, and lefty professors do often want censorship. It can go too far interfering in conversation about important topics like immigration, but in the wider culture it generally it isn't that. It's people trying to put others back in their place. When pc goes too far by limiting ideas you can argue it on free speech grounds and usually without being a douche.

Kids ARE experimenting with ideas, and that where change often comes from.

There are some kids at my daughter's high school who have very specific desires about which pronouns you can use when referring to them. And my daughter has learned to respect their wishes so much that now she doesn't ever want to presume which pronoun she can use when referring to ANYONE until she hears from that person which pronoun they want others to use. It results in convoluted sentence structure when she's talking about someoen with unknown preferences. She explained this to my wife and I matter-of-factly, not as a complaint. She was fine with it.

So the kids today, or at least this liberal group in this high school, are bending over backwards to show respect for one another. It makes me both proud and horrified. They are losing an efficiency in language and it's basically about making other people changing their behavior to suit you, but it's also about showing compassion and basic human decency.

It all seems a little weird to me in my generation. I must be getting to be a dinosaur. Not enough of one to support Trump though.

Then I'm not going to refer to you using any pronouns 'cause you might be a Trannyosaurus Rex.

@Griff: Acknowledged.

@glatt: Yer not old. The younger generation is simply making sure future generations are too damn sensitive to deal with life.

Just another form of youth rebellion against the elders status quo, putting their stamp on the world. Damn whippersnappers think their generation is unique, think they will fix the ills of society. :crone:
I think they're in for a rude awaking, when they find out they made things different, but not better. I hope to fuck I'm wrong.

They may make things incrementally better but I see where stuff like pronoun usage for people you don't know really isn't manageable. My main point is that most pc complaints are really about how the complainant wants to be a bigot without being called on it.

So you are saying (in this case) that PC is about perspective of the outsider who wants to have a different opinion without being accused of being anti-social.

Curious are the many interpretations of PC including one from the Oxford dictionary. Perspective can completely change meaning of the phrase 'political correctness'.