The French had called us a pig and thrown us out. We called back to them, asking,
"Don't you understand our point of view?"
"No!" the French said with pouty lips.
"But Iraq really doesn't mean that much to us, baby!" France would have none of it and turned away. We turned to France, roughly taking them into our arms. There was a tension so palpable that it could be felt in the air. France whispered,
"Oui!"

And then the TGV entered the chunnel, and there was debate. Diplomatic meetings all around! In and out, in and out. Finaly the train burst in the light, and there was a great release of tension, and the US and France smoked a cigar...

Wow! Don't know about you guys, but I could do with some Freedom ... I mean French fries right about now.

To borrow from a Canadian journalist, teenagers across the US have stopped French kissing. Rumor has it that it will now be known as freedom kissing, b/c they just missed doing it so much.

On the topic of polls - which was a subject in this thread -

Just so happens that there's a Weekly Standard opinion piece today that talks about polls and how poorly they fare in the light of history. Money quote:

In re: Polls ....

"DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN"

(I don't think much has changed regarding the accuracy of polling public opinion since then.)

Polls? We don't need no stinkin' polls.
Any one with an IQ of over their age would say no to war, UNLESS, you can convince them it was there were good reasons it was necessary. In this country, with all the information available, most people still aren't 100% sure one way or the other. Why would anyone else in the world know better?

I have a Pennsylvania carry permit, but people still get nervous when I walk in with my Street Sweeper. Go figure.

For me, the moral clarity is absolute.
 

But then, I devoutly believe in human freedom as a positive good.

Two questions with some associated subquestions here, people:

One: Is freedom good for Joe Iraqi, or is the current rule by the regime of Saddam "Woodchipper" Hussein preferable for him? Is Joe Iraqi fully employed? Is he growing wealthy or growing poor?

Two: Can Joe Iraqi become free without kicking Saddamites and rump Saddamites out of their positions of power? Will the Saddamites politely lay their arms down? And at what juncture? Or would they prefer to commit "suicide by GI?"


In connection with Question Two, I only see a just, lasting, tranquil and wealthy peace on the far side of victory.

Liberate Iraq! Right Fucking Now!

[with no guarantee as to the quality of the Latin] Nunc milites nostris suportandi sunt.

     Ok, 'freedom' is better than "Woodchipper" (shouldn't that be 'plastic shredder') Hussein. Um... what level of freedom are we talking about anyway? I won't say that freedom doesn't equal good but do we mean that freedom to extend to the rape/sodomization of boys and their female cousins because said boy was walking with a girl 'above his station'? Just curious since it's been known to happen.
     Joe Iraqi seems to be able to get a job throwing his neighbor in plastic shredders pretty easily, but what do I know? I lost my job a couple of months ago and not even the McDonalds around here have any job openings...
     To say it plainly Iraqi's that serve Sodamn Insane seem ready to die to maintain status quo. Just sucks to be Shi'ite right now.
     Of course not, I am to assume at this point that 'Joe Iraqi' is anti-Hussein? Good for Joe since a lot of Iraqi's are clearly ready to die for the bastard. Nope, I don't see any laying down of arms before we've completely overwhelmed them. Err, I guess that covers the next question too. They do seem fairly okay with "suicide by GI" or even "suicide by strapping bombs to themselves to kill GI's." Hell these people are even proud when their kids do that. I'd be crying my eyes out instead of talking about how 'proud' I am. I guess I don't understand them.
     Really? That's really interesting because I see far reaching hatred for the US, distrust for whatever government we put into place, and a lot of revenge seeking from the groups that were ground down by Hussein towards those that had his favor. Hmm, nope, I don't see peace on the horizon, unless suicide bombings and street violence is considered peace. I suppose it must be since it's not actually war.
     Oh yeah, the wealth. I'm happy about this, since in return for 'liberating' Iraq they'll be selling us lot's of cheap oil. Which, if history serves, will dramatically boost our economy. Which, in turn, Bush will claim the boost is from tax breaks. Me, I'm just happy our economy will improve. I really need a job.
     Now, since I answered your questions I think it's fair to ask one. Should we 'free' every country that tortures it's people? That's a lot of countries... A few of them are our allies... Oh well, I guess if it's a moral absolute we have too. Also please don't forget the freedom question earlier in the post, thanks.

     Oh yeah, I wanted to add that I never even considered joining any 'peace protests'. Now that our men have their boots in the sand I'm all for doing whatever it takes to win. I believe in supporting them and wouldn't want to seem like I'm anti-war at this point. Let's do what we sent our men in to do and get it done. I just don't like pretending we are there for the Iraqi people when we haven't seemed willing to do the same in other parts of the world.

Re: For me, the moral clarity is absolute.
 

I second that!

Well put, well thought out, Whit. That's kept me awake a few nights. The Hutu and the Tutsi's massacring each other in Rwhanda is a good example of that. The UN gave up, and the US would not get involved.

I just want to see Iraqis happy and healthy, and not pissed at anyone.

     Dude, I with you on this, but I don't think it's going to happen. In the end we will be hated, even if we do make things better. It sucks but it's life. I mean what scenario can you see that would go any other way?