Stormie - I stand corrected. A tip of the hat to you. Yes, that program began in the Clinton administration and the cellphones are subsidized by the Universal Service Fee.

piercehawkeye45 - from the whitehouse.gov site, "If a petition meets the signature threshold, it will be reviewed by the Administration and we will issue a response." Yes the response will probably be a laugh, but it does indicate a division in our country.

Wait, wait just a minute. That means the blue states still end up with Trump. Or will he be something they'd have to tolerate, like horseflies in a barn?

Secession is stupid, of course. But the Texas secessionists have been around a long time, and have thought all these questions through before, believe me. Texas has a healthy GDP, based largely in oil and beef, as you say, plus also a surprising piece of the tech industry. And of course Texas would have an army if they seceded--nevermind the fact that many if not most families already own multiple guns, everyone currently on a Texas military base would just change their letterhead, that's all. Unless you're imagining that Texas secedes but somehow has to hand over everything within our borders, which you may be sure they wouldn't agree to. And Mexico wouldn't invade, they'd just keep sending immigrants here at a staggering rate like they have been. More likely, Texas would offer amnesty to any Mexican willing to join this new Texas army, to fight in the inevitable civil war that breaks out when the federal government tries to take back its fighter jets.

Another fact the secessionists throw out quite regularly is that Texas is the only state with a completely independent power grid. Life wouldn't be as good, but Texas could definitely survive on its own. The biggest threat to their success would be how much Great White Flight takes place. How many liberals in Dallas/Ft. Worth, Houston, and Austin would flee to a northern state? Depends mostly on whether the feds let Texas go quietly or not. I honestly think most people wouldn't uproot their lives, unless they were being drafted for a bloody civil war.

Given all that, if they're so ready, I wonder what's taking them so long to split. If it's a matter of a petition and a nod from the White House to do it peacefully, do they really think they'll get it now? Or in the next 4 years?

If they want to fight their way out, that should be quite interesting. They just better keep the fighting out of Louisiana.

Why aren't red states patriotic?

Because the vast majority of us are not morons. No one here is even talking about the petition, only the news outlets from out-of-state. In a state this big, it's a given that there will be over 25,000 dumbasses in favor of any issue. No one here pays the secessionists any mind, they've been around forever.

Secession will never happen. It is simply a way of making a political statement.

Spexxvet - It all boils down to States' Rights

Just to show that we're not above listening to the opposition - "self deportation".

Not to mention the fact that anyone can sign any state's petition, so all you need is 25,000 dumbasses total, let alone from one state.

Minor point, but I find it pretty unlikely that everyone on Texas military bases would just change their letterheads. Military personnel stationed on bases in any of the 50 states are from all over the US - not just the state that their current duty assignment happens to be located in. Plus, members of the military are generally rotated to different places every 3 years. Their loyalty is to the Pentagon and the US as a whole – not to Texas and not to any other state they might find themselves stationed in.

And the Pentagon is going to withdraw American troops from what is now a foreign country unless the decision is made to fight Texas to force it back into the Union. The departing troops will be ordered to take all weapons, tanks, fighter planes, aircraft carriers etc. with them – you never ever leave equipment for enemy forces to use if it can be avoided. Anything that can’t be shipped out will be destroyed.

The Texans can try to capture sophisticated US weaponary with their hunting guns and their coon hounds, but even with the help of the Mexican mafia, they’ll be outgunned.

I wonder how many states would have opted out of the Iraq war?

They had the option of not sending National Guard troops

Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult


It's a good article, substantial. It was written about 14 months ago so some of it feels like we've seen the ending (of the most recent episode) already. But the article is still well worth reading. I don't know what it says about the future of the Republican party, but it sure hits the nail on the head as to their past and present.

That was really interesting, V.

That lost me in the first four words, but I read on.
Then it lost me again at the end of that first paragraph.

The single-payer status is accurate, but the justification is not.
That was the compromise by the Democrats in order to get even
a single Republican Senator to vote in favor of Obamacare.
The second is solely the previous Republican President's banner to bear.

But I do realize these are the meanderings of one misguided Republican soul.
Oh wait, I'm being redundant :rolleyes:

Transient acantholytic dermatosis spreading among Republican Party...

From Wikipedia:
This from the latest Google News:

http://www.businessinsider.com/grove...-taxes-2012-11
Business Insider
Brett LoGiurato
11/25/12

Some Top Republicans Are Breaking With Grover Norquist On New Revenues

On the other hand....

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...on-losses.html


The article really annoyed me...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...se_116244.html

oh ffs. The old "young people are too dumb to know anything they aren't nearly as smart and in the know as us older folks and they are easily brainwashed with incessant indoctrination by the liberal teachers" crap. Since the beginning of time.

If we're not careful, women voting will make a HUGE difference in outcomes, too. Let's not let the young or the women listen to any of that 'constant messaging' because they are 'so massively ignorant of history, civics...'

What a tard.

@pierce, "revanchism" is my new word for the day... ;)

Aside from the rest, this is a statement with which I mostly agree. Sad but true.
With two kids through HS and one graduated from college, it has become increasingly apparent that teachers are teaching the students what they need to pass some state test more so than to think on their own - regurgitating facts and formulas instead of HOW to think.

It is true but that is a separate issue. I don't see it is full out indoctrination though (which the article implies).

Also, I strongly disagree that voting for Romney was in the best interests of my generation. That is the main point that irks me.


I am curious of what he means by conservative cultural infrastructure...

I didn't imply that Pierce. I was off on a teaching tangent.

I know. I agree with you.

I criticized the article's implication that our poor critical thinking education is causing young voters to vote against their own interest. First, I don't think my generation's critical thinking skills are any worse than you old timers :p:. Second, I don't think voting for Romney was in my generation's best economic or social interests.

I'm pretty convinced my g-g-g-generation is about as dumb as all that came before it, but not much more. The stupid people are just, via the internet, much, much more obvious.

I'm repeatedly amazed how many people don't know how the government works/is supposed to work, and are not embarrassed by that. In fact some tell me are proud of not knowing, and they feel not participating makes them guiltless in anything that bad happens in the world/country. "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for him/her/them."

I don't know which is scarier, the ones that opt out, or the ones that vote uninformed.

I'll take the uniformed for $200 please.

No way. I'm much happier with folks who don't bother than people who don't know shit about what they're doing.

...especially since conservatives have a MUCH higher percentage of "low-information" voters.

Don't mix convenient narrative with reality. I doubt your blue inner-city precincts have any more informed electorate than red rural districts. They both vote based on tradition. If Jon Huntsman had somehow escaped the GOP primary the red rural districts would have been on the "right" side of history.

Absolutely, uninformed/misinformed is equally prevalent in every segment, by party, by location, or any other designation.

xoB, don't worry about it. Time heals everything.

You can't find anyone now that voted for Nixon, and soon it will be the same with Romney. :rolleyes:

Not so, I voted for Nixon... the first time. He promised to end the war.
I was very angry when he betrayed me, and actively campaigned against him the second time. I called off my engagement when she told me she had voted for Nixon because her boss told her it would be good for business.
Yes, that angry.

The right wingers, which are all around me, are telling me they voted for Romney and he should have won, but Obamaites stole the election. The political climate has changed so much, I think we'll hear a lot of that for the next four years.

Me too !!!

Maybe it was Nixon that turned me into such a mild mannered, wishy washy liberal.

I voted for Bush the first time too, because Gore gave me the creeps.
There again, he pissed me off... although it was probably Cheney that pissed me off the most.

^^me too^^

Then Perot! lol

this was my first presidential election, and i'm pretty proud to say my first ever presidential vote was for Obama. I mean, sure, that's true of a lot of people, but still, its real historically significant and will feel really cool to be able to say in a few decades.

I think my first vote was for Dukakis.
:rotflol:

And the young people go,
Who who who who who who who who who
Who who who who who who who who who

OK, I'll admit it. Reagan in 1984.

But I did vote for Dukakis in '88. I really liked him!

Mondale and Dukakis

The Dem's were on a roll back then

SNL skit at that time:

Sam Donaldson: Vice-President Bush, there are millions of homeless in this country - children who go hungry, and lacking in other basic necessities. How would the Bush administration achieve your stated goal of making this a kinder, gentler nation?

George Bush: Well, that is a big problem, Sam, and unfortunately the format of these debates makes it hard to give you a complete answer. If I had more time, I could spell out the program in greater detail, but I'm afraid, in a short answer like this, all I can say is we're on track - we can do more - but we're getting the job done, so let's stay on course, a thousand points of light. Well, unfortunately, I guess my time is up.

Diane Sawyer: Mr. Vice-President, you still have a minute-twenty.

George Bush: What? That can't be right. I must have spoken for at least two minutes.

Diane Sawyer: No, just forty seconds, Mr. Vice-President.

George Bush: Really? Well, if I didn't use the time then, I must have just used the time now, talking about it.

Diane Sawyer: No, no, Mr. Vice-President, it's not being counted against you.

George Bush: Well, I just don't want it to count against Governor Dukakis' time.

Diane Sawyer: It won't. It will come out of the post-debate commentary.

George Bush: Do you think that's a good idea?

Diane Sawyer: You still have a minute-twenty, Mr. Vice-President.

George Bush: Well, more has to be done, sure. But the programs we have in place are doing the job, so let's keep on track and stay the course.

Diane Sawyer: You have fifty seconds left, Mr. Vice-President.

George Bush: Let me sum up. On track, stay the course. Thousand points of light.

Diane Sawyer: Governor Dukakis. Rebuttal?

Michael Dukakis: I can't believe I'm losing to this guy!

Jon Lovitz as Dukakis
Dana Carvey as GHW Bush
Jan Hooks as Diane Sawyer
Kevin Nealon as Sam Donaldson

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/88/88adebate.phtml

He looked like a cartoon in that tank wearing that helmet.

;)

Here's another couple of pic's that lost elections for the Dem's...
.

I'm still bitter about the dean-scream incident. Especially since it was perfectly reasonable for him to be as fired up as the crowd. but when you cut the audio to drown out the crowd screaming back at him and just play him shouting "YEAH!"...

I absolutely adore Howard Dean and hopes he gets properly back into politics soon, either nationally or here in Vermont.

Pure BS! It is all based upon one's perspective. The Democrats are no saints with their campaign contributions from Asia

saints? what saints?

Short term strategy for the Republicans is to oppose Susan Rice,
in hope that John Kerry will be nominated and appointed.
Then Massachusetts gets to appoint the replacement Senator.


And who do you suppose that might that be, with the initials JPB.?

ETA: I find it a bit more than odd that Republicans who destroyed Kerry's reputation
when he was running for the Presidency, are now campaigning
for his nomination as Sec of State.

Shameless tailposting:

Christie 2016.

If the Repub powerbrokers have even half a brain between them, but that's a big if.

He refused to put himself forward last time. I think he knew the republican party as a whole is too wingnutty at the moment. Right now he is not enough to swing that back. He wouldn't increase their credibility, they would strip him of his.

good observation Dana.

***

President Obama made good on his election night promise to meet with Mitt Romney. Today the two of them had lunch at the White House.

Big deal.

Mr Romney doesn't really have any political friends at the moment it seems. It would also seem that he has a *ahem* wealth of disappointed donors. Regardless, the President showed his class by keeping his promise. This wasn't good enough for the right wingnut talk radio fomentors. The lunch was private, no media, but the menu was released. White turkey chili and southwestern chicken salad. The hosts on the radio covered themselves in glory by insisting that Obama was humiliating his guest by insinuating he, Romney, was a white turkey. Several such childish remarks by hosts and guests alike were sprinkled through the conversations today.

They're... disconnected from reality.

I heard some what I assume you'd consider "the right wingnut talk radio "
They had nothing bad to say about it at all.

If you like, I'll start keeping a log. the show, the host, and the time of such statements. Today, Michael Medved was the one who first gave that description. Others talked about how Obama was rubbing his nose in it, since he had to walk past the construction for the inauguration.

No thanks. I'd rather you mention them specifically, instead of painting them all with that broad brush.
Not that my opinion means much.
OTOH, maybe the radio at the Dr's office wasn't wingnutty enough to qualify.

Remember it's the wingnuttiness rather than the right wing element that is being pointed to. I daresay there are a fair few decent rightwing commentators around.

I guess I'm lucky in that there are a couple local people here who aren't wingnuts. Heck, one radio show is totally liberal and is a stark contrast to some of the alternatives.

The future of the Republican Party will not include, at least in the official player rosters, the name of Senator Jim DeMint, R, South Carolina.

How do you think this will affect what happens in the Senate? The Governor of SC will appoint a replacement, and will almost surely be another Republican. How do you think he'll make more of an impact as an opinion maker as opposed to a law maker?

Is the Republican party taking the same hit as their supporters?
from Forbes

Article criticizing current Republican views on foreign policy and ideas of what they need to change.

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl...licy?page=show

From the snip quoted above : "The fever swamps of the Republican base" - I like that. The GOP is retreating further into the South as if persued by Sherman's March to the Sea. Republican members of Congress with constituencies from the North East and other regions which have escaped the tea party strangle hold are becoming more and more frustrated with a party held ransom by its lunatic fringe.

I don't see tea party members backing off until Obama leaves the White House. They're enraged that a black man has won the presidential election not only once but twice.

Obama's color has very little to do with the opinion of the VAST majority.
Please stop spreading that lie. What they are angry about has NOTHING to do with race.
That is the opinion of the "lunatic fringe."

I have a question for you, classic. What percentage of our country do you believe is racist to some degree or another?