The Cellar

The Cellar (http://cellar.org/index.php)
-   Health (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=33)
-   -   I joined the Gym yesterday (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=26879)

infinite monkey 03-21-2012 08:14 AM

I'm makin' plans.

Shall I sleep in my car if we pick the, um, third option? ;)

Lamplighter 03-21-2012 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinite monkey (Post 802679)
So that's where Sam has been: getting all in-shapey and stuff. ;)

You ladies are my inspiration. Now all I have to do is turn inspiration into action!

Looking forward to pics of your off-road adventures in the National Parks.
Ummm.... off-road adventures with silver foxes may be kept private.

Myblogmind 03-21-2012 09:46 AM

Always wanted to join a gym but many who have done it say that it will change the look of your face and they recommend not to join is it true in your case also.

infinite monkey 03-21-2012 10:12 AM

Srsly, I don't know if I can make it on Saturday. I did just shell out a grand for my car. :(

classicman 03-21-2012 04:08 PM

Wrong thread, but ... was that $1000 your deductible?
If the other guy was at fault AND had insurance, you shouldn't have shelled out a cent!

monster 03-21-2012 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myblogmind (Post 802708)
Always wanted to join a gym but many who have done it say that it will change the look of your face and they recommend not to join is it true in your case also.

I think this should be a cellar tag line

infinite monkey 03-21-2012 05:25 PM

classic, that was the deductible. My insurance said they found no matching plate. The police officer told me it was registered to a maroon chevy in B____. (It was a maroon camaro.)

They don't seem really interested in pursuing it, but for my part I'm waiting on the police report. I called on Monday and they said they weren't done with march yet and to try next week. When I get that I'll present it to my insurance and they can try to recoup their money and my deductible.

If he's insured. If they even know who he is because maybe it's not his car. A lot of ifs.

SamIam 03-21-2012 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 802689)
Looking forward to pics of your off-road adventures in the National Parks.
Ummm.... off-road adventures with silver foxes may be kept private.

Oh, I never can resist posting pix of the cool places I am fortunate enough to visit. I am strongly tempted to head out for Island in the Sky on Sunday since I won't have to come back to the Bates from then until next Thursday. Temps are supposed to be in the mid 70's plus, so I may go out there to do some recon. The place I really want to go where the off-roading gets pretty difficult is the Needles District. I'm going to have to hold off on that until I am more aerobically fit. There are places there where if something goes wrong with your 4 wheeler, you need to be able to walk out 20 miles to reach the nearest anything besides desert.

And, alas, I have a better chance of posting a picture of a cougar (the cat, not the hussy) than I do of getting any silver fox pictures, so rest easy. ;)

monster 04-02-2012 05:33 PM

Hmm. Looks like I have a long way to go at the gym! Today I passed the physical (swimming) prereqs to get certified as a Red Cross Lifeguard, but my upper body strength/body weight almost let me down.....

No gym for me this week -9-5 at the pool everyday and -hopefully- by Friday I'll be certified.

ZenGum 04-02-2012 06:49 PM

Certified? Is that to do with Wolf being back in work?

infinite monkey 04-02-2012 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum (Post 805008)
Certified? Is that to do with Wolf being back in work?

You're thinking of certifiable.

Which monster definitely is, just not in this context. :p:

monster 04-02-2012 07:14 PM

no, Zen nailed it ;)


....omg I'm so tired, and only halfway through my homework. I suspect subsided stress is as big a factor as physical exertion, though......

monster 04-09-2012 12:01 PM

OK, back at the gym with a vengeance! Body needed the whirlpool after last week's exertions, so actually went on Saturday. Did weight training first, because no workout = no spa.

Today, weights again, then swam a mile, almost all freestyle. Felt good. Did it in six faster sets of 300 rather than continuous with a one-two minute rest/stretch between sets. (300 was the prereq/warm up each day for the lifeguard course and I wanted to se what if felt like without the varsity swimmers making the pool all choppy and leaving me in their wake) Felt good -different, but good.

monster 04-15-2012 10:04 AM

Still going, still not really losing any weight or belly mass, though. But I have much improved upper body strength, was able to do a lot more "push-ups" when I tried on Friday.

LabRat 04-16-2012 10:32 AM

Go Swim is by far the best resource for high quality video of EVERYTHING swim related that I have found. I learned about it when I was a member of our local Master's swim team.
Here is an example of one of the videos: Basic Flip Turn Video
Some of my favorites are the Drills videos, which break down portions of whatever it is you need help on. Like this one for Flip Turns.
Those are the most useful to me these days, since I can't swim with the Master's anymore.

Happy swimming!

Gravdigr 04-16-2012 10:38 AM

Wow, four posts in 3 years!

Settle down there, motormouth.

:p:

glatt 04-16-2012 11:15 AM

Hi, LabRat!

*waves*

limey 04-16-2012 11:43 AM

LABRAT!!!!!!!! Hello.

fargon 04-16-2012 02:47 PM

LABRAT we missed you!!!

BigV 04-16-2012 11:46 PM

Wow, hiya LabRat, great to see you around again. Welcome back!

monster 04-17-2012 02:58 PM

and unhijack? Back to Zumba today -between two 2-hour weeding gigs.....

LabRat 04-18-2012 12:18 PM

Sorry, not trying to hijack just help. :D
Monster, (or anyone) here is a great video for core strength. I used it after the kid was born, and still use it today, 9 years later! I love it. It has two 20 minute sessions. The first time I did it, I could barely do most of the moves of the first session alone for the length of time that she did. The next day I could hardly breathe I was so sore. Worth every penny!

monster 05-04-2012 10:24 PM

still working at it, very busy with other shit now, but paying way too much for a gym and the reward of the whirpool spa each visit is keeping me going at least twice a week. Still doing the swimming in 300y setts and i've managed to speed up significantly. This is good because I was getting bored with just getting in and hammering out a mile. Mostly i've only swum half miles recently, but after doing a class or weight training.

There's a summer fitness challenge going on right now, where you get a "bingo card" with 25 different things to do and can cross off one square a day (if you do that thing on that day). If you get 10 squares in the month you get entered into prize-drawings. I plan to use this to jog me into expanding/changing my repertoire and making effort to get there more often. I'll easily go 10 days, but wouldn't necessarily manage to cross off 10 different squares if I didn't change it up a bit.

limey 05-05-2012 05:17 AM

I've just started using an iPod shuffle in a waterproof box to listen to audiobooks as I swim ... So now I couldn't tell you how many lengths I've swum, but how many chapters! (Currently listening to Cannery Row, quite a watery book ...)

LabRat 05-07-2012 10:08 AM

I think they make a little thing that can hang down in the water to count laps. I seem to always lose track of how many laps I've swum, so I just wear my watch and start the chronograph when I start swimming a longer set. I know I swim an average of 50 yards/min so I periodically check it to see where I am at. It works well, and it's interesting to see that some days when I feel fast, I'm still slow, or when I fell crappy, I'm actually not as slow as I thought.

This weekend I swam a mile straight for the first time ever. I was really pumped!! Poor Red heard about it all weekend, LOL. I try to get an average of 2000 yards per session, but that's including warmups, drills, various sets and a cool down. My goal was 20 laps straight, but I was feeling really good at that point and decided to try for 25, then 30, then 35.

Woot!!

Monster, when I was in college, the University Wellness center ran a program that you kept track of how many yards you swam, and the goal was to swim to Cuba during the semester. My workout buddy and I made the 90 miles, and earned a T-shirt. It was incredibly motivating, especially because we swam in the mornings, usually when the swim team was practicing. Those guys could kick faster than I could swim at that time. Seriously. :eek:

monster 05-07-2012 10:53 AM

I have no problem counting laps -can't stop myself and no problem with motivation to swim. Just time constraints. WTG on your mile, I plan to swim one this aftenoon, once I've finished my paperwork.

monster 05-08-2012 10:14 PM

Only managed the half mile yesterday due to time constraints, but today I did the full mile, non-stop -not even to defog goggles- half breast, half freee in 42 minutes. am pleased. Coulda kept going for a long time, I think, so maybe need to swim faster next time..... or put in more freestyle

limey 05-09-2012 08:00 AM

Well done you! I did abt 3/4 mile and 7 chapters yesterday! Swam all through the party Mac and the boys threw for Doc at Western Marine Supplies ....

monster 05-09-2012 08:13 AM

Oh Randy Wayne White! I loved that series.

Off to try a new class RFN

bbro 08-07-2012 07:56 PM

Resurrecting this thread, because, well, I am on a 2 week streak of going to the gym Mon-Fri and working out. This, sadly, is the longest streak I have had. According to my tracking, I am burning about 1900 calories a week. Which means I get to eat more than I normally would while trying to lose weight. The first week, I lost four pounds. This past week, only .2 - I kind of blame Mother Nature and water weight.

I also haven't had a cigarette or a drink in that time. Not that I think I have a major problem, but it was bordering on it. I also put myself on a strict budget to try and pay off credit cards, so there is no money for going out. I tell you what, though - I am bored as crap. The one good thing about the gym is I am usually tired by 930/10 at night, so the temptation isn't too bad. But the weekends SUUUUUCK - lol

Last few weeks in a nutshell :)

jimhelm 08-08-2012 01:20 AM

Good job bb. You should give yourself one day a week to be a little bad.

•spoken in to my phone

bbro 08-08-2012 05:51 AM

Be a little bad in what way? I already have 2 days off from the gym. I eat things like burgers and pasta and oven-fried chicken - just portion controlled :)

bbro 08-10-2012 03:32 PM

Ugh - almost didn't make it to the gym today. I was so tired this morning. I still drug myself up and out. I am now dealing with a tired headache. Doesn't help that I keep forgetting to put on my computer glasses. I am excited to sleep in tomorrow, though. Well, as much as my body will now let me. Apparently 8am is now sleeping in :/ At least it will give me time to make a pizza for lunch :D

BigV 08-10-2012 05:25 PM

I'm in the market for a heart rate monitor. I have been looking at the Polar unit, model RS300X G1.

Any thoughts? My primary goal is to have a device that monitors my heart rate and can alert me when I exceed the limits of a certain range, too high or too low.

bbro 08-11-2012 06:57 AM

I have a polar F6 and it has that capability. I don't really use that functionality too much. I keep an eye to make sure I am at least in the range. If I am using the arc trainer, I use it to make sure my heart won't explode. It also has other settings for the heart rate, but I don't really know what they do. You can get the booklets online, I think, to see if it has what you need. One thing is that it is advertised that the Polar F6 has a stopwatch, but it doesn't really. It only has one that is integrated to the exercise/calorie burn functionality. It also has personalized settings. You put in your weight, age, height, sex, etc.

I like it, it's a little bulky for me, so I only wear it at the gym. The chest strap can be a bit picky about picking up your heartbeat, but that's easily solved by getting it wet. I think some people worry about cross-transmission with the machines at the gym. I never had an issue with it as far as I could tell. I mostly use it to track the calories I am burning for cardio only. According to what people have told me, heart rate monitors cannot be used for tracking calories burned from strength training.

What ever you do get, I have read that the ones with the chest strap are the most accurate. If you get a Polar, I think they all have chest straps.

Hope that helps a little.

bbro 08-13-2012 08:37 AM

I had trouble getting and staying asleep last night, but still made it to the gym. I was so annoyed though. I couldn't finish my cardio because some stupid woman got on the treadmill right next to me and had on this hideous perfume. First -really? right next to me? there are a dozen other machines where you wouldn't be next to anyone. They should have rules like the bathroom. Never take the stall next to someone unless you absolutely have to. Second - Perfume? My god, you are at the GYM! The only thing you should be worried about is not radiating BO.

I swear, I couldn't breathe! Even if I didn't have asthma and allergies, the smell was noxious. It wasn't your typical old lady flowery perfume. It was more like a cheap ass version of good perfume. Regardless, it shouldn't be worn AT THE GYM! If I had been at the beginning of my cardio, I would have moved. I've done that before to a lady who smells like she jumped in baby powder. But I was already running late and it would take too much time at that point to move.

Luckily, it was only about 20 calories burned below my goal, but still.

Ok. Rant over. Gym is done for the day. Now to get to work.

BigV 08-13-2012 12:20 PM

bbro!! run away run away!!

***

I purchased the Polar FT4 model. I don't like it, I intend to return it. I got it because I (thought I) was getting several things accomplished that I find important. I was told it had an alarm that beeps when my heart rate is outside of a given range. I got to shop locally, at a non-chain store. I got it right away and used it right away. The other features of the device were nice, but not very important in my buying decision.

I'm returning it for a few reasons. Primarily, the alarm is inaudible. It *says* it's "on" but I can't hear it even sitting in the house, never mind when I'm huffing and puffing or when I have a headwind on my bicycle. Total fail in this regard. Next reason, the display is quite small, the size of a postage stamp and the contrast is average. The result is that it is difficult to read, another kiss of death.

There are some aspects of the device that are adequate but would really improve my experience with it, were they different. The buttons are small and stiff. I have big hands, big fingers. Pressing the buttons requires a very definite and precise effort. It's not particularly easy. Bigger buttons would make using this device easier and nicer to work with. I mentioned the display earlier. Having a bigger display would be nice too, and one with a more powerful backlight. Timex has a feature called Indiglo, you may have seen the Tron-like blue glow of these watches. Very bright, lots of contrast. That level of night time readability would be nice. From a purely cosmetic standpoint, the one I got was the last one in this model--it's bright orange. It looks like Denver Broncos swag. It's... O. K. but I would prefer a black watch, or some other less conspicuous color combination.

For other features I've read about that this rig doesn't have at all that I now think I'd like to consider, presuming the price was right, there are a few. Notably, a gps would be cool in order to collect data on distance traveled. If you have this, then you can get some other interesting facts, like speed, pace, even route. This sounds cool. The other more expensive model I researched included a little bug that clips to your shoelaces that gets calibrated to your specific stride length. This gives the same data as a gps, speed, distance, pace, etc (not route, obviously). One advantage this shoe sensor has is that it reports and computes its information very quickly, unlike the gps which needs a lot of communication over a very long distace (wrist to satellite, come in satellite). This means changes to pace don't have the lag that gps based calculations do. Another interesting feature would be to be able to upload the data from the device to the computer to track my progress over time. The data's saved in the device, the trick is how to get it into the computer, preferably not by manually keying the data in.

There are features included that work as advertised: instantaneous heart rate, calories burned, elapsed time, time in training zone, these are all desirable features and did work well. I would want these features in any device I settle on.

bbro 08-13-2012 08:19 PM

I like it. The only things I want it for, are the ones that you listed work well. I am pretty low key with the workouts. As long as I can get my calories burned, I am good. :)

bbro 08-14-2012 05:54 PM

Oh - and another update. I am down a total of 6.4 pounds now.

bbro 08-16-2012 12:58 PM

Today was a struggle getting out of bed, but I finally did. Of course, this meant I was late to the gym. I almost skipped the cardio portion of my workout. I figured 10 minutes on the arc trainer would be good and then just make up any more calories I need to burn on Saturday. Usually 10 mins wipes me out and my heart rate is close to 200 :mg: I got a suggestion on my traking website to up the resistance. Doing this, I was able to regulate the speed and heart rate more but still get a good workout.

I was even able to finish TWENTY minutes :sweat: I think I burned most of my calories on there in that short time. I am still short for the week because of Monday and the stupid woman that wore perfume. I am going to try and get up earlier tomorrow to extend the cardio time. If not, I can go on Saturday, no big deal.

Perry Winkle 08-16-2012 04:17 PM

I recently bought the FitBit Aria scale. I love it. It tracks weight and body composition (though I'm skeptical of the accuracy of that function) in a web app.

My wife ordered us each a FitBit tracker last night ( http://www.fitbit.com/product/features ). I know several people who have, and love, them. They include a heart rate monitoring function, though I don't believe it will give real-time alerts.

monster 08-16-2012 06:39 PM

So I lost 15 pounds. I lost 5 right away, thenit plateaued again, but I kept going and kept working out and then over the summer another 10 seems to have disappeared...... my face looks skinnier and I had to buy smaller shorts. My didgy scale that's supposed to do body fat % anaylis etc (but I'm suspicius because it thinks I only have 6% bones) says my fat % has reduced. My ab and core strength have definitely improved and my limbs look ripped. But the belly is still there....... been three times this week and swam over half a mile on the day i didn't go. plus I did 5 hours gardening.

limey 08-17-2012 05:24 AM

I fell off the wagon about a month ago as the local pool(s) were infested with holidaymakers and their children in all the wet weather we've been having, then we went on holiday, then we had visitors when we came back. I put on weight (6lb! :eek: ). Work needs to be done. Back to the pool this afternoon, and to hell with the holidaymakers' children!

bbro 08-17-2012 08:48 AM

I've heard of them Perry, but I always thought they were the big clunky things they wore on biggest loser. I am most intrigued by the sleep tracking. I would buy something just for that - I don't have the best sleep patterns and I am always tired

Congrats on the loss, monster! I have a feeling I am going to have some trouble with my belly, too. Everyone seems to that I read about.

Good attitude limey. Can you believe I actually didn't want to go to the gym at first because I didn't want people to see me sweat or struggle? I finally said Fuck it - lol

I got up to 30 minutes on the arc trainer. I think I am going to stick with this as my main cardio and just do 5 minutes on the treadmill to cool down. I feel like it is such a huge accomplishment to get that long on it.

limey 08-17-2012 12:00 PM

Swam 1 km (50 x 20m lengths, or about half a mile), and every tenth length was legs only. Back on Sunday!


Sent by thought transference

bbro 08-27-2012 05:47 AM

Starting another week at the gym. Haven't missed a day yet. I may need to take a week off and just do some yoga or something soon. I am getting quite tired of getting up every day.

Last Friday was difficult. I forgot half of my heart rate monitor, so I didn't get a chance to do my cardio. I did, however, get a chance to get my blood taken for tests. I did my strength training and said I would just go back on Saturday to finish the week's cardio. Yea, that almost didn't happen. I did get there and actually took a shower. That will never happen again if I can help it. It was a fucking joke. I was so annoyed by the time I was done, it felt like the workout was a waste. I should've just taken a shower to burn those calories!!

Later!

bbro 08-28-2012 11:37 AM

I think they are revamping my gym. Things are being moved around - I don't like it - lol. It would be good if they are expanding, but, I never see many people there when I go, so I don't think that's it.

Anyways, I have been upping the weights on my exercises for the ones that seem a little too easy this week. I think I am going to be SORE tomorrow! Poor legs.

On the bright side, I think I am getting a bigger butt!! In a good way that is. :D

monster 08-28-2012 11:12 PM

Second day back after the annual shutdown......my abs are going to rebel any second now.......

Booked my 6-months-later fitness assessment.....

monster 08-29-2012 08:58 PM

Went to the docs today for my annual. She said my blood pressure was fantabulous (it;'s always been great but apparently it's better).... and my weightloss was "dramatic"!!! (it's not, really -probably less than 10lb since I last had an annual but she reckoned my cholesterol was bound to have come down as a result. We'll see. gotta find a 12 hour period to fast in now..... (preferred option for me is find a morning when I can stand being hungry and actually get going without a cup of tea and count 12 hours from the last beer the pervious night ;) )

bbro 08-30-2012 05:38 AM

Congrats monster! I just did the whole blood test thing. Still waiting to go see the doctor, but going to the gym seemed to really help. I have another week and then I am going to take a break of sorts. I am going to probably do pilates or just cardio, but not focus so much on how many calories I am burning. Trying to head off burnout before I get there. Not today though!! Off to work the arms and heart :)

bbro 08-31-2012 05:32 PM

Odd way of showing progress, but still shows - I have this air mattress that I always drag out when my friends come to visit. I hate it. Awkward, very heavy and I always had issues with moving it around uninflated. They are coming down this weekend and I was dreading the damn thing remembering how hard it was for me to even move into the closet. I go in, grab it, no issues! I'm throwing this thing around like the bitch it is! I am so excited! I just always thought it was a genuinely heavy thing - nope, I was a weakling. I hope these motivators keep rolling in!!

(I still hate it)

monster 09-05-2012 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster (Post 798352)
So I got my fitness assessment and weight training orientation today. Assessment was as I thought -fit, fat and flexible. With no abs or core strength. They did two body fat tests and they came back with vastly different results. The trainer said the lower one was considered more reliable, but that one put me in the average range which is kinda hard to believe unless we really are including all of the walmart shoppers.....

So the trainer creating my workout plan concentated on machines for abs and core strength for me. I told the assessor I couldn't do a push up, but I actually managed a few -although I thought the execution was too appaling to count on most of them.

Six months later I had another fitness assessment.

I'm AWESOME!

It was later in the day (so I'm heavier -my weight varies by about 5lb during the day) but they still registered a 5lb weight loss since the last assessment. My body fat % had reduced by 3%! My cardiovascular fitness has improved by two points putting me very much above average (I was a little above average before), my resting heartrate has reduced significantly, my blood pressure is fantastic (and exactly the same as at the docs last week) my strength has increased through the roof -I did 28 (girl) push-ups and had to stop because my knees hurt too much). And I'm still incredibly flexible

The trainer was very impressed.

:D :D

(The diet kind of went by the wayside..... oops....)

limey 09-05-2012 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbro (Post 827546)
Odd way of showing progress, but still shows - I have this air mattress that I always drag out when my friends come to visit. I hate it. Awkward, very heavy and I always had issues with moving it around uninflated. They are coming down this weekend and I was dreading the damn thing remembering how hard it was for me to even move into the closet. I go in, grab it, no issues! I'm throwing this thing around like the bitch it is! I am so excited! I just always thought it was a genuinely heavy thing - nope, I was a weakling. I hope these motivators keep rolling in!!

(I still hate it)

This is the best sort of measure, though, isn't it? When stuff you have to do which you thought was hard work is suddenly a breeze! WTG bbro!
And Monster - awesome!

bbro 09-06-2012 11:25 AM

Thanks Limey!

Great News Monster! I can't wait to go to my doctor in a couple weeks to go over my awesomeness ;)

I am taking a hiatus this week from the gym. I am really tired and instead of feeling guilty, I am just making this my rest week. Still watching calories. Even with the overindulgence of Labor day weekend, I was down a half pound.

Next week includes bagel day at the gym - extra motivation anyone? lol

bbro 09-11-2012 08:58 AM

Back to the gym this week. I still don't "like" it per say, but it feels more like a normal routine now.....If I could get to bed before 12:30! I upped some weights in my lower body workout, so I am expecting some soreness tomorrow. It feels like I have moved backwards in my arms (the few exercises I did yesterday). They are definitely moving much slower in terms of being able to raise the weight than my legs. I think I might be seeing some bicep definition, so it can't be too bad of a thing :)

Also, official weigh in day shows a total loss of 8.6 pounds. Of course, the website rounded UP in certain places. It's nice to see the number, but I want the REAL number I lost. Still - a good number for 7 weeks. About a pound a week - which is what I was aiming for :)

Edit to add - My BMI is now in the Overweight range!! Woot - no longer obese!!

Razzmatazz13 09-11-2012 09:03 PM

Yaaaaay bbro!!

Lola Bunny 09-12-2012 09:38 PM

BBRO: :thumb2::celebrat: One pound a week is very good! I would be very happy with that myself.

monster 09-12-2012 10:08 PM

Lola, are you aware that you are a completely different build from many of the rest of us who are trying to lose weight/slim down/whatever and are operating at a completely different level of fitness? And that such factors matter greatly regarding weighloss/week? Not that 1lb a week isn't great -it's perfect for where bbro and I and I suspect Razz are (or at least was for me -slowed down now)

I weigh about twice what you do and am way less fit and I've been working out seriously for 6 months. Not only is 1lb a much biggest % of your body weight than it is of mine, you also have much less fat to "burn off". you really are doing yourself a disservice to compare you weightloss to borderline-"obese" people like me. 1lb a month is a pretty neat acheivement for someone of your weight/fitness. Althoiugh why you feel you need to lose any at all is beyond me.

Do you ever see women and think "OMG, she's too skinny"?

bbro 09-13-2012 06:59 PM

Thanks Razz and Lola.

monster - not sure where the animosity is coming from. I think Lola was just trying to give me a compliment. Also, looks can definitely be deceiving. No one can ever tell how much I actually weigh, they always guess less. Just because someone looks a certain way doesn't mean they can't lose anything (not implying that you need to Lola).

monster 09-13-2012 08:07 PM

Oh I'm sorry, I must've been in a crabby mood/tired, it wasn't intended as animosity -my apologies, lola. I reread it and I can see how it comes across as horrible. I just think Lola is in such great shape that she shouldn't be beating herself up about not being able to lose the same amounts we can. I dodn't see how it came across as bad about you, though, but i'm also sorry if i offended you.

And anyone else. Really, it wasn't what i was trying to say at all.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:15 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.