The problem with the Kia soul is the sports model. It is called the "R" model. But no, it is not the "Soul R". No. They named it the "R Soul". Yes really.

They are obviously total morons and should be avoided.

I've got just under 70K hillbilly miles on my 2008 Suzuki SX-4. So far it has been a very good little car. The AWD was a big plus Wednesday night when I climbed our unplowed mile hill with 6" + of snow which was icey underneath weedling around a bus that slid across most of the road in a steep section. They are still around $14,000.

ooh, thanks griff, will look

OK so the AWD drive start at 17,000 but that's still in the ball park and beest really like the AWD idea. we get some slippy days here. No dealers nearby, though...

Ah, they bumped the price 3k since I bought...

My son is a Mazda salesman. Last year he sold me a Mazda 2 for under $14K. Very nice car and surprisingly roomy.


Too bad you're not in PA or he could have hooked you up ;)

I was going to suggest All Wheel Drive, but I didn't know of any hatch-type cars that have it. My Subaru has it and it is stable and self-correcting, even when I deliberately try to hang the back on a corner on a dirt road. If you drive in snow or wet (or dirt) a lot it might be good. I'm not sure how it will work on a hatch - the length of the subi also helps keep it stable, I think.

And that Suzuki looks pretty cool.

The Subaru Impreza comes in a hatchback in the States but costs quite a bit more than the Suzuki. Pete has a 2005 or 6 (?) that she adores with a ton of mileage on it. The 2012 has much better gas mileage so when repairs start outstripping car payments, she may go that way. I'd rather drive my Suzuki in the snow but she'd rather drive her Subaru. I think the Suzuki has a shorter wheelbase but I was a Jeep driver early in life so I'm very comfortable with it.

Make sure you take your hockey gear with you when you test drive to make sure it fits. We can put two fencing bags in the hatch. The rear seats fold down for cargo as well. If I take the front wheel off my mtn bike it fits in the cargo area.

Very tempted by a Subaru with the AWD, two of my work collegues have just bought them. I can get dealer invoice through a work discount, guess I'd better go look at one.

we have enjoyed our Mitz Outlander , 4 doors , lift back , seats fold down for some decent hauling room , high 20s in town and low to mid 30s on the highway ,
but if there had been a Subaru dealer any were close we would prolly gotten a Subaru

We've had the smallest Subaru Outback (AWD) since 1998 and it's been a very good car. It has a few rattles, but that's mostly due to driving off-road, which I think the car is not intended to do.

We use to have a Suzuki SX4 (until our financial situation hit the shitter and we decided to surrender it.) Loved that car. Didn't feel cheap or flimsy. The AWD was awesome in the winter. Husband use to drive it to work every day and it got better mileage than one might expect. The only problem with it we had was that the little spot in the back behind the seats was just about wide enough to fit a 3 ring binder.

We test drove the SX 4 a few years ago, and were very impressed.

Our need for a new car coincides with beest's need to use up his vacation allowance.... test-drive city, here we come......

(we're liking the Subaru recommendations. it does come in manual, right?)

why does it HAVE to be Manual ??

With Subaru outbacks the manual is the only one which comes with low-range option (good for steep hills, bad surfaces etc.) You don't get that with the manual.


You seem to have rejected corollas. Was there a reason?

Because we like to drive manuals. I have a manual windstar if it were possible.

Corollas -any special reason to consider them? priced slightly higher, reviews are so-so. Only Saloon are avaialable here so that would be an issue -do they even do a hatchback any more/over here? The Yaris would be the Toyota offering in the size we are looking at and that is generally poorly reviewed, but I think beest is planning to give one a go....

In Toyota's infinite wisdom the Yaris is only available in manual in a 3 door, for 5 door you have to have automatic

Oh, that was that one? See, that's why we're not into Toyota. And we won't be into Ford when we get to replace the Windstar for similar idiot reasons

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-P_KtjySZp4...0/man-card.jpg
http://images.cheezburger.com/comple...e2955a7885.jpg

oh and ^^^ but only a man can post that ;)

Slick i drive a 10 and 12 speed Manual , 40 and 60+Thousand lbs respectively,
so I'll be Hanging on to my Man card Thank you verry Much !!

and yet you asked why.......

because that SERIOUSLY limits your choices of new cars, That is all

Handling, safety, power, control, economy ... but really this:

Attachment 35954

Now go and do a google image search for "how I feel driving an automatic" with the quote marks. I only got two pics ... have a look at the other one. WTF?

Limited choices is good. There are way too many choices.....

Heh. No, I like manual transmission too. My CRX was a 5 speed. Loved it.

Manual transmission is superior in every situation except stop and go traffic on the highway. That gets really old after even just a couple of minutes.

Exactly. It wouldn't work well for my current commute.

My wife's Audi A3 has a kind of manual/automatic transmission, which gives you the best features of both.

You know, my car has some setting that you can shift it if you want. I've never used it. Where is the clutch? How does it work? I'd forgotten about it until you posted that.

Our Mits Out lander has that to , they call it Sport shift , the clutch is automatic ,
I Have had to go to manual drop a gear get the engine Revving Way high go up a gear to get out of tight traffic situations befor , my wife Hates it when i do that !!!
But its fun ;)

The Audi uses an S tronic transmission. Here's the description from Wikipedia:

These drive by wire cars make me nervous. You don't hear about the acceleration problem in cars any more, but I think it's just because the press moved on to the next scare story. Give me a mechanical connection to the throttle and to the transmission and I'm happier. All this routing the driver inputs through the computer seems unnecessarily complicated. What happens when a neutrino hits one of the critical paths in the processor and the driver's inputs corrupted?

I understand, glatt. I bought a slide rule last year and I'm still trying to figure out how to use it.

OMFG the nissan sales guy was Teh Slime....... :::shudder::: ::::need shower::::

Drove the Versa and the Fit today. Preferred the Fit. Wing mirrors on Versa are weird, way too small

did you drive the sedan or the hatchback? I just saw the 2012 sedan, and it's a LOT nicer looking than the 11. didn't really notice the mirrors....

I prefer the manual in stop and go traffic. Some behind me do not. Because I do not accelerate quickly, then brake on the bumper of that car in front. And because I am not distracted by e-mail on my cell phone.

All automatic transmissions are trying to do what a manual transmission does better. An automatic transmission computer does not know what the 'human' computer sees and is planning to do. Too often, an automatic starts shifting while I am complaining what took it so long. Automatics tend to shift when it should have already been in that gear seconds ago. But then its computer does not know what I know.

A most common reason for getting stuck in snow is what the automatic transmissions does. What an automatic does makes a stuck wheel even 'stuckier'. A stick makes possible superior control and traction so that snow shoveling is even unnecessary. Again, because the 'human' computer knows more than a transmission's computer.

Many cars now offer the two best transmissions - manual or constantly variable automatic. A fixed gear automatic transmission will probably be obsolete by the next decade.

Your car is already a computer network. The steering computer is not the computer that runs an engine or that controls the electric windows. Yes, even windows are now computerized. Often using a technology pioneered by Intel in the 1970s - CAN bus.

watchin' porn in traffic instead are ya?? :eyebrow:

:D :lol2: just kiddin man!

Keep your eyes on the road. What happens five miles up is also available for public viewing on the highway. And you don't even have to pay to watch.

Real life is always better than a script written in LA's Valley.

Lol, he was a noob, three months on the job, Creative writing major. he was very excited that I had a pen.

He did all the tricks, kept going into the back to 'check with the manager'

it was funny at first but got old.

I'm renting a nissan versa and like it, pros and cons compared to Fit or Fiesta.

gonna be 3K more for a Subaru, and there aren't even any I can look at for 2 weeks and we'd have to order with a 4- 8 week wait, worth it ?

Sedan -they didn't have a manual hatchback on site. but beest's rental is an auto hatchback.

really really really hate the sales twomp, though

here's a half-ass suggestion. look around when you're out and about. that's what i did. I picked out what i wanted while sitting in traffic or what have you then went to the dealer. granted i wanted brand new but wound up with a great used truck that was the exact color and body style i wanted, albeit a few years old.

doesn't even merit a half-assed rating, but thanks for playing ;)

(1) looks aren't all that important compared to how it drives/fits people and stuff in
(2) who can help from looking at the cars around them when they need/want to buy a car

easy moni. of course no one can help looking around while shopping. hell that's what shopping is all about. point being, looks on the outside usually are just as important as the inside. right? we're not shopping for a soul mate here, just a car. SO look around and get an idea then go to the dealership and look in the car. most companies nowadays cater to the interior. meh....i'm a guy. i find what i want and what i can settle with and get it.

right. me too. just more logically/technologically -we use google and the cellar to find what's "looks" good ;)

Maybe the thread was too long to read all, but we want a tiny manual hatchback. Search already reduced to manageable size :D

yeah i kinda have to spot read to catch up but you get the gist. on looking online? mmmmm i have to go back to my original debate of looking while driving. obviously you want dependability with comfort. ask yourself what looks good? then find out if it's comfortable and meets your criteria. as far as what you want? i have no suggestions. i never have had nor wanted a small hatchback. i'm in texas. texas=truck. imo anyway. now i did have a friend a while back that had a yugo. does that count?

looks good is last on the list of priority.

Then a yugo is perfect. ;)

I'll have a serious reply here in a second, but I was reminded of the Adobe. Too bad I can't find the skit on video. (Well there was a hulu but it took too long to come up.)

OK, I asked my cow orker how she likes her Honda Fit. She really likes it. She said she wishes it had a little more "ooomph" but the sports model would.

She said it's responsive and reliable. She's had it about a year now I guess. Maybe less, she isn't sure how it does on snow but probably like most smaller cars. Mine little car has the anti-lock and the non-skid features (whatever that is) and does OK.

You might be doing it wrong.



for grins!

True, most of them are 1.6, adequate, but not exciting, Sport model has the same engine, just automatic with paddle shift and a louder music system.

Bet she's not 6'2" though, i tried it again and adjusted the wheel properly, much better, the wheel obscures just the top of the speedo, I'm worried on the highway I'd hunch to see the speed and end with stiff shoulders and neck. Other than that they are great