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classicman

10-18-2011 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 764868)

Well, duh. He's a Republican.
there's a lot that's admirable too.
I think mostly I just find him refreshingly sensible for a republican candidate. Which is fucking bizarre really.

I agree.

Quote:

These days, politics is like a freak show.

FTFY ;)

DanaC

10-18-2011 03:05 PM

I think that's probably fair. But I also think that the Republican Party, currently, is the leader in downright phreakiness.*

*Not talking about all Republicans. Just the ones running for the presidential candidacy.

classicman

10-18-2011 03:25 PM

can't deny that. They seem to be trying really hard NOT to get reelected based upon the candidates running.

DanaC

10-18-2011 03:52 PM

I imagine it must be seriously frustrating for the average republican voter.

classicman

10-18-2011 04:00 PM

I guess. I've been all over the last few elections.

Aside/I think they should disable the "PICK A TEAM" button/lever so you actually have to select each candidate. /Aside

Lamplighter

10-18-2011 04:09 PM

Don't forget to include the last button: None of the Above

Lamplighter

10-18-2011 06:17 PM

Although Chris Christie seems to be a "normal" person,
his budget-cutting tendencies are legion*
Schools and libraries were his game targets
during his first year being Governor.
But then...

NJ.com
Jeanette Rundquist/The Star-Ledger The Star-Ledger
Updated: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 7:40 PM

NJ Judge rules against Chris Christie:
Budget cuts left N.J. schools unable to provide 'thorough and efficient' education"

Quote:

Tea Party favorite Gov. Chris Christie received a severe blow
to his education budget cuts by a Superior court judge:

Gov. Chris Christie's deep cuts to state school aid last year left New Jersey's schools unable
to provide a "thorough and efficient" education to the state's nearly 1.4 million school children,
a Superior Court judge found today.

Judge Peter Doyne, who was appointed as special master
in the long-running Abbott vs. Burke school funding case,
today issued an opinion that also found the reductions "fell more heavily
upon our high risk districts and the children educated within those districts."

"Despite spending levels that meet or exceed virtually every state in the country,
and that saw a significant increase in spending levels from 2000 to 2008,
our 'at risk' children are now moving further from proficiency," he said.

And besides all that:
Christie does not seem to learn from his mistakes.
That is, if you want decisions to be in your favor,
do you really think it wise to piss off all the judges in your state:

Bloomberg Businessweek
October 18, 2011, 5:23 PM EDT
By Elise Young
Christie Calls for Constitutional Change on Judges’ Pensions

Quote:

Oct. 18 (Bloomberg) -- New Jersey Governor Chris Christie called for an amendment
to the state constitution that would subject judges to a public pension overhaul enacted this year.

Christie, 49, said he’ll try to get the proposal on the November 2012 ballot.
He spoke to reporters a day after Superior Court Judge Linda Feinberg in Mercer County
ruled that members of the judiciary are exempt from a law requiring
higher pension contributions by public workers.
Christie said he will appeal.
“This is a blatant attempt to exact special treatment for themselves because they have the power,”
Christie said today in Trenton.
“Judge Feinberg’s decision, in addition to legally indefensible, is morally indefensible.
If the courts will not fix this problem,
the Legislature has to give the people the opportunity to fix this problem.”

Feinberg, who ruled on a claim brought by Superior Court Judge Paul DePascale
in her Trenton court, declined to comment.

In the same way he told teachers they don't have to teach,
maybe he will tell judges they don't have to judge.
.

[* IM might use the word "lesion"]

ZenGum

10-18-2011 09:11 PM

I was thinking about this last night. I knew Mitch mitchel was wrong, but the only name that came to mind was Loius Lewis.

I'm going to have a few strong words with my brain.

(Also, I am a bit ill at the moment, some kind of throaty-nosey-lungy-coldy-fluey thing. And senility, apparently.)

ZenGum

10-18-2011 09:13 PM

Oh and I like the fact that he is calling the Judges BS for what it is, despite the fact they could mess him up in return. More truth, less politicking.

DanaC

10-19-2011 02:07 AM

Compared to some of the lunatics currently in the race he seems relatively sane. For a right winger.

I mean...don;t get me wrong, hell would freeze over before I'd give my vote to anyone with his political views or record. But at least he seems like an actual human being.

The rest of the field are so wrapped up in presentation and appealing to this or that demographic that they seem to have lost track of who they themselves are.

Lamplighter

10-19-2011 10:34 AM

2 Attachment(s)

I read the first article I came to on the GOP debate...
I'm sorry, I did it again. I need help. I promise to try harder.
It was by

Fox News
By John LeBoutillier
Published October 19, 2011

Candidates Clash at GOP Debate But Voters Are Left Empty-Handed

Quote:

Watching Tuesday’s GOP debate in Las Vegas this is what
Republican voters are looking for and have yet to find:
a leader who presents a vision to us – the American people –
of how he or she will reverse a widespread sense of national decline
and then lead an American revival.

<snip>
[a lot about the snipping back and forth between Romney and Perry]
<snip>
[Fox serious questions if Cain and 999 can withstand critics]

Ron Paul continued to say things that previous GOP
presidential candidates would never have had the courage to say –
especially about aid to Israel, closing foreign military bases,
not building a fence on our southern border and the Occupy Wall Street protestors

Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum were almost invisible in this debate.
They no longer have any impact on the contest --
they have become vanity candidates who stay in the race through Iowa – and then disappear.

Bottom line: not the best debate for the Republican Party overall.
We did not present a Reaganesque, positive, hopeful, visionary face to the American people.

and besides all that:
I seriously disagree that Michele was almost invisible.
She was the only one that stood out from all the men in black.

I do agree that she was not really Reaganesque.
She was more Nixonesque in her "Commander in Chief" uniform.
But then, Nixon was ridiculed for his proposed White House
"praetorian guard" uniforms (below)

.

Lamplighter

10-19-2011 12:37 PM

This LA Times article makes me wish I had watched the GOP debate.

By Robin Abcarian
October 18, 2011
Vegas debate: Cut everything in budget -- but the military

Quote:

<snip>
Newt Gingrich, suggested that “historically illiterate politicians”
(referring presumably to their illiteracy about history,
not their continuing illiteracy, if you see the difference)
should not be charged with making “a numerical decision about the defense budget.”

“I’m a hawk,” said Gingrich, “but I’m a cheap hawk.
The fact is, to say I’m going to put the security of the United States
up against an arbitrary budget number is suicidally stupid.”

Quote:

Cain was forced to defend something he had apparently said earlier on CNN,
that he would consider negotiating for the release of an American soldier
in exchange for all the detainees in Guantanamo Bay.

Bachmann pronounced that position naive,
but Cain said he does not believe in negotiating with terrorists
and did not recall making that remark to CNN.

Quote:

Paul, who frequently harps on military spending,
said he did not want to cut “any defense.
There’s a lot of money spent in the military budget that doesn’t do anything for our defense.”
Why, he asked, do we have troops in Korea, Japan and German? <snip>

and besides all that:
There was nothing worth watching on TV last night.
.

TheMercenary

10-19-2011 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 764900)

I imagine it must be seriously frustrating for the average republican voter.

Not really, you just vote for the guy you want to make sure Obama does not get re-elected. My last three votes for President were based on who was going to be the best bad choice.

classicman

10-19-2011 03:12 PM

That is a very different perspective from what I saw and from what the pundits said in the aftershow.

Bachmann held to the "mothers" blah blah blah
Santorum stayed on the family blah blah blah.
Cain was on defense for his 9-9-9 and ignorance of foreign policy.
Newt ... was Newt.
Perry was attacking Romney and trying to look strong
(I think he looked like an asshole bully)
Romney looked like Romney.

TheMercenary

10-19-2011 03:16 PM

Glad I never watched it. It really is to early to get caught up in it. I will wait til the field narrows down before I worry to much about what any of them say.

BigV	10-21-2011 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 765291)

Not really, you just vote for the guy you want to make sure Obama does not get re-elected. --snip

Holy mackeral.

I never, *ever* thought I'd see the day mercy declared he'd vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016!!!

[ faints ]

Lamplighter

10-22-2011 06:37 PM

And here comes Herman again...

NY Times
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: October 22, 2011

Cain, Now Running as Outsider, Came to Washington as Lobbyist

Quote:

WASHINGTON — Herman Cain, the Republican presidential candidate
with the sharp wit and easy-to-remember tax plan, is a cancer survivor,
radio host and former chief executive of Godfather’s Pizza.
On the campaign trail, he talks up his business experience and
casting himself as a “problem solver” and Washington outsider.

But the role that helped propel Mr. Cain into politics was that
of an ultimate Washington insider: industry lobbyist.

From 1996, when he left the pizza company, until 1999,
Mr. Cain ran the National Restaurant Association,
a once-sleepy trade group that he transformed into a lobbying powerhouse.
He allied himself closely with cigarette makers fighting restaurant smoking bans,
spoke out against lowering blood-alcohol limits as a way to prevent drunken driving,
fought an increase in the minimum wage and opposed a patients’ bill of rights —
all in keeping with the interests of the industry he represented.

And besides all that:
Cain writes: "Jesus was "The Perfect Conservative" and was killed by a liberal court"

Quote:

The [Cain] column claims Jesus as a conservative.
"He helped the poor without one government program.
He healed the sick without a government health care system.
He feed the hungry without food stamps," wrote Cain.
"For three years He was unemployed, and never collected an unemployment check."

Cain then describes Jesus' death:
But they made Him walk when He was arrested and taken to jail,
and no, He was not read any Miranda Rights.
He was arrested for just being who He was and doing nothing wrong.
And when they tried Him in court, He never said a mumbling word.
He didn’t have a lawyer, nor did He care about who judged Him. His judge was a higher power.
The liberal court found Him guilty of false offences and sentenced Him to death,
all because He changed the hearts and minds of men with an army of 12.
@ Huffington Post

And here I always thought Jesus was the ultimate rebel against the establishment.
So I live and learn.

ZenGum

10-22-2011 07:18 PM

[ incredulous stare ]

That's all I got.

DanaC

10-22-2011 10:02 PM

Wow.

DanaC

10-22-2011 10:02 PM

Say what ye like about the Republicans: they're entertainig.

Lamplighter

10-23-2011 10:55 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Just 10 days ago, Classic forecast the imminent demise of Herman Cain's 15 minutes.

Maybe Cain's run will continue for a while,
and maybe he will become the GOP candidate,
and maybe he will even be elected President in 2012
By now enough has been said about Cain to understand him
So, until my dog does get into this fight, I plan to ignore him and his "discontinuities".

It's time to look closer at the others for the qualities they possess and profess.
Right now, Romney and Perry seem to be the two top-dogs in this fight...
Washington Post
By Philip Rucker
Published: October*22a

Mitt Romney reaches out to voters but often lacks the common touch

Quote:

Would Romney, he [a man in the crowd] wanted to know,
“finally give the people of Iowa an alternative to that?”

This was Romney’s moment to make the case that he is the substantive one,
the electable one, to tell Republican voters that Michele Bachmann and
Herman Cain and Rick Perry may be the candidates they love
but that Mitt Romney is the president they need.
And that that is why they should love him, too.

But Romney didn’t. Instead, he queued up his talking points —
that he will be back again, hopes to win here, but will campaign everywhere.
<snip>
When voters exposed themselves emotionally, Romney offered little empathy.
When they sought his support for their causes, Romney didn’t show them that he cared.
Romney was scripted when he could have been spontaneous.
He was boardroom cool when he could have been living room warm.

It’s not for lack of trying. Romney lets his hair breathe,
goes tie-less and travels with a slimmed-down entourage.
He deploys his wife, Ann, to share stories about Mitt the husband and Mitt the father.
He campaigns less as someone looking to fulfill his personal ambition than
as a turnaround specialist whose skills are needed for the nation.
“I am not in this race for me,” he says.

Brent Siegrist, a former Iowa House speaker who endorsed Romney in 2008
and plans to do so again. said, Romney still has weaknesses.
“He’s almost too perfect — too good-looking, too successful — that’s just what it feels like.
It’s almost like he’s Robert Redford in ‘The Candidate.’ ”

In the movie:

Quote:

"The Candidate", presidential candidate, Bill McKay,
travels the state, with his liberal statements eroding each day.
His support of abortion rights and gun control fade to mush,
while his stump speech is reduced to the same few clichés
and a new slogan: "For a better way: Bill McKay!"

And besides all that:
It has been reported that upon viewing the film, Dan Quayle came to the conclusion
that he was more handsome than Robert Redford, and that
he would be well equipped to win a campaign to enter the White House

I've seen the movie "The Candidate"
Robert Redford was a great actor
Mitt Romney, sir, is no Robert Redford

classicman

10-23-2011 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 766218)

Just 10 days ago, Classic forecast the imminent demise of Herman Cain's 15 minutes.

I can still hope for a change can't I?
Perhaps the media fascination of this guy will end soon ... I don't see that happening though. See their coverage of Palin, Bachmann et all as a reference. They seem to be fixated on the extremist positions instead of the more rational ones.
(I don't wonder why) :eyebrow:

ZenGum

10-23-2011 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 766280)

I can still hope for a change can't I?

NO! That's for democrats. ;)

BigV	10-23-2011 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 766280)

I know you don't wonder why.

I believe the why is mostly two fold, and these two factors exacerbate each other in a positive feedback cycle.

1 -- MOST media is commercially based, and depends, as most corporations do, on making a profit. That profit comes from advertising mostly, and the revenues from advertising comes from advertisers who have been told and expect to have their commercials seen/heard by lots of people. What attracts those viewers/listeners? Spectacle, suspense, a good story. More excitement means more audience.

2 -- MOST presidential candidates for a party nomination know that they have to appeal to the greatest number of voters (for this restricted "election"). The voters in these several elections/caucuses/primaries are interested, motivated, focused voters. These are people who have definite ideas about what they want in a candidate. This includes "independents" for those areas that permit independents to vote. These more keenly interested, highly motivated, more intensely ideological voters have their choice among the competitors for the party nomination. They're looking for someone who is the *most* Republican, or the most (fill in the important issue here) of all the candidates. The result is you hear the candidates *competing* to be more _____ than the next one. This results in a "I'll see your position, and raise you" race to the far end of the spectrum in a race to be the most appealing. "I know you are, but I'm MORE." A race to the extreme.

This is double fucking rainbow awesome for the broadcast media, as each day is a richer harvest of more spectacle than the last one. Since the candidates know this too, they play on the media's hunger for more and more, substance be damned. Point 1 feeds on point 2 and that makes more of point 1, repeat (ugh) until the nomination.

Then it is a race to the center, because this new pool of voters is very different than the previous pools for the candidate who wins a major political party nomination. This race to the extreme then race back to the middle makes for some mental whiplash, but that is a small price to pay to get elected. Which must be done before one can govern.

Lamplighter

10-23-2011 08:29 PM

Quote:

They're looking for someone who is the *most* Republican,
or the most (fill in the important issue here) of all the candidates.
The result is you hear the candidates *competing* to be more _____ than the next one.
This results in a "I'll see your position, and raise you" race to the far end
of the spectrum in a race to be the most appealing.
"I know you are, but I'm MORE." A race to the extreme.

V's comment above is true. And for Perry, it is business as usual.
In Texas, the candidates traditionally vie for who
is the "most Conservative", regardless of party affiliation.
Romney doesn't have a clue how this works, so his numbers stay constant.

But the thing that is really different this time around is the parties have reversed themselves.
Usually, it's the Democrats beating up on one another in the primaries,
and then have to suddenly realign for the general election.
The Republicans usually fall right into formation with the candidate
based on who is next in line (a la Romney).
I think McCain was the exception, and look where that got them.

If the Republicans are not successful this time, the Roves, Rollins, Norquists,
and McConnolls will squash the Tea Party and their ilk for generations to come.

Lamplighter

10-25-2011 09:24 AM

Governor Rick Perry has released his tax plan which is being touted as a "flat tax"
Below is what I have extracted from a couple of articles,
mainly from today's Washington Post

Washington Post
By Perry Bacon Jr.
October*25, 6:22*AM
Perry calls for major spending and tax cuts

Quote:

Texas governor and Republican presidential candidate Rick Perry
has released an economic plan full of long-held conservative goals,
including personal accounts for Social Security, an optional flat tax,
major spending cuts and a series of tax cuts.

In almost every way, Perry, who is looking to woo tea party conservatives
who have been reluctant to back Romney,
presents policies to the right of the former Massachusetts governor.

Federal spending cap as % of GDP
Romney:20 %
Perry : 18% and Balanced Budget Amendment
Huntsman: three tax rates: 8%, 14%, and 23%
Cain: 9% on income, 9% on sales

Current special taxes
All candidates: Repeal estate tax
Romney: no taxes on interest, dividend income for less than$200K
Perry: eliminates: taxes on estates, capital gains and dividends
Cain: repeals all other taxes other than 9-9-9

Social Security
Romney: Raise retirement age
Perry: Private savings account outside
Cain: (0%)

Corporate taxes
Romney 25%
Perry 20% OR current tax system
Gingrich: 15% or current tax system
Cain: 9%

Deductions:
Romney: Current system
Perry: keeps mortgage interest and charitable donations
Huntsman eliminates all deductions
Cain: eliminates all deductions

Quote:

Democrats strongly oppose many of Perry’s ideas,
and they are unlikely to become law, even if Perry is elected president

And besides all that:
Steve Forbes previously announced his support of Perry, and
Perry's plan is based on Forbes' "flat tax" plan from previous years,
but a Forbes Magazine article today says:

Quote:

Unfortunately, this is one area where the Perry flat tax falls a bit short.
His plan gets rid of lots of special favors in the tax code,
but it would retain deductions (for those earning less than $500,000 yearly)
for charitable contributions, home mortgage interest, and state and local taxes.

TheMercenary

10-26-2011 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV (Post 766005)

Holy mackeral.

I never, *ever* thought I'd see the day mercy declared he'd vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016!!!

[ faints ]

:lol2: What a funny statement!

Lamplighter

10-27-2011 10:17 AM

The political news over the past days has been lackluster.
The media seems to be drying up on GOP tax plan proposals,
leaving Gov Rick Perry as 'foil dejour' .

With another GOP debate coming in just two weeks,
Polls are the fun and games for the news media
... in the North, Romney leads Cain
... in the South, Romney and Cain are tied
but in all the country but Texas,
it may be unanimous... Perry is at the bottom of the heap.
And maybe wants to stay there.

Christian Science Monitor
Does Rick Perry really want to be president?
Texas Gov. Rick Perry's debate performance, and other clues,
indicate to DCDecoder that Rick Perry may not be 'in it to win it.'
The Christian Science Monitor
By Liz Marlantes
October 13, 2011

Quote:

Watching Rick Perry’s debate performance Tuesday night,
Decoder (along with many observers in the press) was struck by how
itching-to-get-out-of-there uncomfortable he looked.
It was like watching someone’s half-hearted attempt to engage in polite conversation
at a dinner party he was only attending as a favor to his wife.

And almost by definition, a candidate who jumps in only after some
arm twisting by supporters - as Perry did and Christie did not -
probably doesn’t want it that bad.

Even Perry's campaign staff and are admitting problems
with Perry's performance in debates, and the media are speaking openly about it.
The Atlantic
Oct 27 2011, 9:14 AM ET

Rick Perry Ponders Staying Home for Future Debates

Quote:

In Michigan on November 9, Gov. Rick Perry is confirmed to be
on the debate stage beside his rivals for the GOP nomination.
But after that? "We are going to evaluate each debate as it comes
and take each one on its own merits," his campaign spokesman told the Wall Street Journal.
"The primaries are right around the corner and there is simply more to do than there is time to do it."

Conn Carroll recommended this strategy a couple weeks back:
"Perry has performed poorly in all four of the GOP debates in which he has participated.
Even the candidate himself seems to acknowledge that debates can only hurt his campaign.
So why show up?" he asked.

This announcement is an admission that the Texas governor doesn'teven expect he can improve over time.
Of course, it isn't actually essential that a president be a good debater,
but it is essential that he has a deep grasp of numerous issues,is a quick study,
and can use the bully pulpit to good effect.
As it happens, these are the very things at which Perry is failing miserably.

With nothing good to say, the news media is focusing
on Perry's role in State government, which also seems to be haphazard.

LA Times
October 26, 2011

Perry opposes Confederate Texas license plate proposal

Quote:

Perry said he opposed the plan to offer the Texas license plates
with the emblem, which includes the Confederate flag.

"We don't need to be scraping old wounds," Perry said.

Afterward, a spokeswoman clarified the governor's position.
"While the governor believes this is a decision for the DMV board,
he personally does not support the Confederate plate,"
spokeswoman Lucy Nashed said via email.

And besides all that:
Perry is not despairing.
He is not the only GOP candidate whose remarks need to be clarified.
Perry has a role model in Mitt Romney:

Mitt Romney Questions Obama Troop Withdrawal, Says He’d Vote for Rick Perry

Quote:

MANCHESTER, N.H., — At a campaign stop in the Granite State today,
former Mass. Governor Mitt Romney questioned whether President Barack Obama’s decision
to withdraw troops from Iraq entirely by the end of the year was “due to politics or ineptitude.”
<snip>
Having avoided mentioning any of his GOP rivals by name during brief remarks
delivered to the volunteers making calls for his campaign,
Romney was asked by a member of the press if he believes
Texas Gov. Rick Perry has the “intelligence” to be president.
“I do,” quipped Romney. “I believe every single person on the stage
in that last debate would do a better job than President Obama.
If Rick Perry were the nominee I’d be voting for him.
I, of course believe he’s qualified, as are the other people on the stage."

Cyber Wolf

10-27-2011 10:45 AM

Quote:

“due to politics or ineptitude or economics.”

Fixed it...

TheMercenary

10-27-2011 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 767065)

Perry opposes Confederate Texas license plate proposal

He may have a problem getting votes in GA. :p:

Lamplighter

10-28-2011 09:59 AM

The flip flop issue has raised it's ugly head:

Washington Post
October 27, 2011
As Romney learned in Ohio, state issues can be tricky to navigate for presidential candidates

Quote:

As Romney proved this week, such local issues can trip up even the most cautious candidate,
causing headaches for their national campaigns while hurting their standings in important states
for both the primary and general elections.

“Fully support that,” Romney said about the Ohio ballot initiative while visiting a local Republican Party office Wednesday in Fairfax, Va.
A day earlier, the former Massachusetts governor visited a site near Cincinnati where volunteers
were making hundreds of phone calls to help Republicans defeat the Issue Two ballot effort.
The question before voters is whether to repeal Ohio Gov. John Kasich’s restrictions on public sector employee bargaining.
But when pressed, Romney took a pass on supporting the measure —
and just as a Quinnipiac University poll indicated that Ohio voters opposed the GOP-backed restrictions 57 percent to 32 percent.

It turned out that Romney had already weighed in, supporting Kasich’s efforts in a June Facebook post.

Patience is growing thin:

The Atlantic
Mitt Romney Can't Afford Any More Flip-Flops
By Molly Ball
Oct 26 2011, 2:13 PM ET

Quote:

His shifts on the Ohio unionizing bill have done little to counteract arguments he's a political animal who lacks conviction

In an election where Republican voters want an authentic champion to channel their anger,
Romney hasn't managed to shake the rap that he's the kind of politician
who has to check the record to figure out where he stands on a particular issue.
It was particularly galling to many conservatives that his hesitation came this week on an issue dear to their hearts --
reining in public-sector unions.
<snip>
Romney's slip in Ohio was immediately seized upon by a newly opportunistic Rick Perry campaign.
<snip>
And Perry, appearing on Fox News Tuesday night, twisted the knife: "I think in his own words he says,
'Listen, I need to say whatever I need to say for whatever office I'm running for.'"

And beside all that:
Mitt Romney learned from his father the need to be clear in his statements.
George Romney came under fire for his comments about being "brainwashed" on Vietnam.
"I have learned the lesson as well as I can to be careful in the words I use,"
Romney told the Globe in 2002 after he was elected as governor of Massachusetts.

And Alice responded:

Quote:

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone,
"it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all."

classicman

10-28-2011 10:12 AM

I'm beginning to think that some Republicans would rather lose the election and bitch about everything Obama does for another 4 years instead.
At least they wouldn't have to be responsible.

Lamplighter

10-28-2011 10:27 AM

ZenGum

10-28-2011 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 767338)

I'm beginning to think that some Republicans would rather lose the election and bitch about everything Obama does for another 4 years instead.
At least they wouldn't have to be responsible.

I was thinking that when McCain picked Palin.

BigV	10-28-2011 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 767338)

I'm beginning to think that some Republicans would rather lose the election and bitch about everything Obama does for another 4 years instead.
At least they wouldn't have to be responsible.

What makes you think they feel they need to lose to do that?

tw	10-28-2011 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum (Post 767538)

I was thinking that when McCain picked Palin.

McCain ran as a moderate. Much of his support came from Republican and independent moderates. But to obtain party support for the final campaign, McCain had to make a deal with the devil. His replacement campaign chief was Steve Schmidt - previously employed in Cheney's office. Schmidt eliminated many of McCain's VP considerations from the list as too moderate. And then added Palin.

We know what happened to the McCain campaign as it slowly alienated moderates. Then extremists threatened McCain's AZ Senate reelection. Forcing McCain to talk like an extremist.

Romney has the same problem. He must preach to extremists (ie tea party) while begging for moderate support. Flip flopping is almost impossible to avoid.

Meanwhile, Limbaugh is still taking cheap shots at McCain. Still calling McCain too liberal.

Lamplighter

10-30-2011 08:41 PM

Truly unfortunate, but Herman Cain's campaign is going to be getting
some very bad publicity... a la Clarence Thomas.

Politico
10/30/11
Exclusive: Two women accused Herman Cain of inappropriate behavior

Quote:

During Herman Cain’s tenure as the head of the National Restaurant Association
in the 1990s, at least two female employees complained to colleagues and
senior association officials about inappropriate behavior by Cain,
ultimately leaving their jobs at the trade group, multiple sources confirm to POLITICO.
<snip>
In one case, POLITICO has seen documentation describing the allegations and
showing that the restaurant association formally resolved the matter.
Both women received separation packages that were in the five-figure range.

I'm disappointed that this sort of crap has to show up again because
I'm sure the media will be all over it for weeks to come.

classicman

10-30-2011 10:39 PM

Good maybe he, Santorum, Bachmann and Gingrich will step away.

I know they are all trying to stay through the primary in Jan, but its ridiculous to have so many at a debate. You cannot ask 7-9 people to answer the same question.
Its stoopit.

Lamplighter

10-31-2011 11:12 PM

I said in my post above that I am disappointed this sort of crap has come up again.

Herman Cain is playing this episode in the dumbest way possible.
Feigning vague memory, ambiguous statements, weasel words,
and denials that sound a lot like "...what is is is."
Today he is providing minute details of what were vague memories only two days ago.

Chicago Tribute
Nov 1, 2011

Face the questions, Mr. Cain

Quote:

'Nuff said. Herman Cain hopes, maybe even believes,
that he can dispatch troublesome questions about sexual harassment
allegations by refusing to answer them.
The Republican presidential candidate says the charges are "totally false"
and that's all anyone needs to know. Next question.
Sorry, Mr. Cain, but America isn't ready to go back to talking about your 9-9-9 tax plan.
<snip>

Sexual harassment claims are unfortunately not rare.
It's not unusual for them to be resolved without any determination on the merits.
Financial settlements and confidentiality agreements are common.
But Herman Cain didn't sign a no-disclosure agreement —
remember, he didn't even know there was a settlement.
Cain is free to rebut the allegations. If he wants to stay in the race, he will.

The questions aren't going to go away. Answer them.

Personally, I don't care a whit about Cain's candidacy,
and have always doubted he would become the Republican nominee.
But, my belief is total that his "999 tax plan" is so flawed and unworkable,
that a full and complete discussion would put his sort of foolishness to rest once and for all.

As it is, if Cain is forced out of the race now, that discussion probably would not happen,
and we will hear of 999 again and again and ...

classicman

10-31-2011 11:13 PM

I think the 9-9-9 will die with him. It's stupid, decreases revenue and punishes those who deserve it the least.

Lamplighter

11-01-2011 12:20 PM

Well, it has started, just as predicted....

MSNBC.com
By STEVEN R. HURST
11/1/11
Key conservative voices rally to Cain
'It's outrageous the way liberals treat a black conservative,' fumes pundit Ann Coulter

Quote:

WASHINGTON*— The sexual harassment allegations engulfing
the candidacy of Republican Herman Cain dominated American politics Tuesday
as prominent conservative voices rallied to his side,
saying he was a victim of a "high-tech lynching."

The forceful early reaction to the Cain firestorm
— fueled by racially charged rhetoric —
suggests the Georgia businessman's attempt to cast himself
as a victim of the news media and liberals is, so far, paying dividends
among his conservative Republican base who will hold considerable
sway in selecting the party's nominee.
<snip>
Supporters were quick to liken Cain's latest troubles to those that
roiled the nomination of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas,
another prominent black conservative, who faced sexual harassment allegations
during his explosive Senate confirmation hearing two decades ago.

The head of the conservative Media Research Center, Brent Bozell
labeled the story a "high-tech lynching," evoking
Thomas' divisive Supreme Court confirmation hearings two decades ago,
where he was confronted with sexual harassment allegations
from a one-time employee, Anita Hill.

"— fueled by racially charged rhetoric —" ????

In all the media reports I've read about Cain's current problems,
this is the first (only) one I've seen that attributes anything to his race.

It's all the fault of the news media and those damn liberals.
.

classicman

11-01-2011 12:22 PM

Bah - MSNBC ...
The guy should step aside and go sell his books.
Heck they probably taste better than his pizza.

infinite monkey

11-01-2011 12:24 PM

Quote:

'It's outrageous the way liberals treat a black conservative,' fumes cunthead Ann Coulter

Fixed that for them.

classicman

11-01-2011 01:41 PM

Bahahahahah - - THAT needed a spit warning.

DanaC

11-01-2011 02:15 PM

hahahaha

Nicely done Infi.

classicman

11-02-2011 04:14 PM

Cain who? ... He's done.
It took a little more than my 15 minute prediction though.

Quote:

A veteran Republican pollster and former NRA employee said Wednesday morning that Herman Cain sexually harassed a woman at an Arlington, Va., restaurant in the late 1990s.

Chris Wilson, now the principal of an Oklahoma-based GOP consulting firm, said in an interview on Oklahoma City's KTOK radio station that the episode took place in the neighborhood where Cain kept an apartment when he headed the restaurant trade group.

"This occurred at a restaurant in Crystal City (Virginia), and everybody was aware of it," Wilson said on the station. "It was only a matter of time because so many people were aware of what took place, so many people were aware of her situation, the fact she left — everybody knew with the campaign that this would eventually come up."

In an interview with POLITICO, Wilson said he was present for the episode and that it took place in the late '90s.

Wilson declined to say specifically what Cain said or did to the woman, but that the CEO's actions made other individuals at the table uneasy.

"It was very uncomfortable," said the pollster, recalling that other individuals present asked Cain to stop.

Wilson said there were at least three other people at the gathering but wouldn't share the name of the woman for publication.

Lamplighter

11-02-2011 04:41 PM

Classic, your link has two other links.
One seems to be Cain making a false accusation about who leaked the story.
The other is yet another incident of Cain saying something inappropriate to a radio station staffer.

It's getting to be almost like the Nixon/Times fiasco... drip... drip... drip

TheMercenary

11-02-2011 06:40 PM

Did Herman squirt his DNA on a blue dress while in the White House?

Did he cheat on his high profile wife, currently the Secretary of State?

Did Herman shoot his load on one of his employees?

Is there any duplicity in these attacks?

Did Herman stick a cigar up a woman's vagina?

Did Herman get accused of RAPE?

A former President Bill Clinton did all of that. And he was a Demoncrat.

DanaC

11-02-2011 06:45 PM

Seriously? You're wheeling out Clinton? What's the statute of limitations on that being at all relevant to what's going on now?

Do Republicans get a free pass on outrageous womanising and/or harrassment because a Democrat president got caught out over a decade ago?

TheMercenary

11-02-2011 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 769664)

Do Demoncrats get a free pass on outrageous womanising and/or harassment? Please the duplicity is palpable. What Horse Shit. Anytime some one brings up old Willie's indiscretions people jump on the band wagon "Who cares about his personal sex life"? Are you freaking kidding me. Clinton may have raped a woman and you act like you don't care?!!? WTF?

TheMercenary

11-02-2011 06:51 PM

At least have the decency to be consistent.

DanaC

11-02-2011 06:55 PM

Accused of rape, not convicted of rape.

And I still don't see what any of that has to do with Herman Cain.

TheMercenary

11-02-2011 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 769668)

Accused of rape, not convicted of rape.

And I still don't see what any of that has to do with Herman Cain.

Herman has not been convicted of anything. He has been "accused" in the news, not in the courts, as Clinton has been and was subsequently convicted of perjury! This is nothing short of a Smear Campaign.

classicman

11-02-2011 07:59 PM

At least Clinton and Lewinski had a mutually agreed to affair. Simple as that.

Cain has been accused of something completely different. In my opinion, something even worse. He has been horrible at coming forth with his utter lack of recollection one day and then very specific tidbits the next.

I do not like what Clinton did, nor do I like what Cain has been accused of doing. I cannot do anything about Clinton. However, I can certainly not vote for Cain.
Sex scandal aside, he'll have even more trouble defending the pending issue with campaign money. Stick a fork in him. He's done.

All that aside, his lack of knowledge about foreign affairs and his ridiculous 9-9-9 are reason enough not to vote for him.

Lamplighter

11-02-2011 08:51 PM

Of a sudden, Merc seems to have a dog in this fight !

Don't forget, Kennedy was a Democrat with a less-than-sparkling reputation.
And LBJ was accused of having affairs and he was a Democrat

Funny thing is, I don't think anyone accused Nixon or Little Bush of having affairs.

What should we surmise from all this ?

BigV	11-02-2011 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 769662)

None of us know because the settlement contained a non disclosure agreement. Do you know the answer to any of these questions? I think Cain has drawn so much of the worst kind of attention to himself in this imbroglio. He *acts* guilty by the way he's changed his story, by the way he's parsed words "I'm not saying I didn't sign it, I'm saying I don't recall signing any settlement." etc etc. The last time I heard this kind of response was from my eight year old trying to get out of punishment for not taking out the trash. "I am not saying I didn't take it out, I'm saying I don't remember if I took it out."

FFS. You have children. Don't you recognize this voice, this uncomfortable squirming? If he did it, he should man the fuck up and say so. If he did not, he should man the fuck up and say so. He's had ten days BEFORE the story broke to get his shit together. ****THIS**** constitutes his shit being together?

Not good, not good at all.

DanaC

11-03-2011 03:21 AM

Yehbut.....Clinton didn't have his shit together and he was a democrat!

Griff

11-03-2011 05:49 AM

The accusation seems to be bolstering his support. It is working backwards, his lack of serious ideas is being lost in the automatic left / right side picking.

glatt

11-03-2011 07:18 AM

The funny thing is, it's got nothing to do with the left. It's right vs. right. I'm a lefty, and I see all this unfolding and I don't care. Cain looks like an idiot, sure. But they all do. It wasn't a liberal smear job against Cain, it's the conservatives tearing each other apart.

Lamplighter

11-03-2011 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt (Post 769759)

The funny thing is, it's got nothing to do with the left.
It's right vs. right. I'm a lefty, and I see all this unfolding and I don't care.
Cain looks like an idiot, sure. But they all do.
It wasn't a liberal smear job against Cain, it's the conservatives tearing each other apart.

Glatt is right on...
Fox News
By Chris Stirewalt
November 03, 2011
The Curious Case of the Cain Conspiracy

Quote:

The big question among Washington hacks and flacks today is this:
Who’s the tattletale?

Quote:

Washington Worries Over Who Zapped the GOP Frontrunner,
But They’re Looking in the Wrong Places
“We’ve been able to trace it back to the Perry campaign
that stirred this up in order to discredit me.
The fingerprints of the Rick Perry campaign are all over this, based on our sources.”
-- Herman Cain speaking at a TheTeaParty.net event on Wednesday.

Rick Perry’s campaign team says they didn’t do it and
points a sidelong finger at Mitt Romney’s organization.

And besides all that:
If you can't trust your fellow GOP friends, who can you trust ?
Cain is getting trustworthy advice from Gingrich

Atlanta Journal Constitution
jgalloway
November 3, 2011
Newt Gingrich advises Herman Cain:
Stop talking until you have a handle on the facts

Quote:

“My first advice is what he hasn’t done, which is say nothing
until you sit down with your lawyers and with the people who know the facts,” Gingrich said.
“You thoroughly and completely understand them and you go through a period where everybody asks you
— in your team — every possible negative question so you thoroughly understand what will happen.”

Gingrich is to appear with Cain in Houston on Saturday evening.
<snip>
Some polls indicate the former U.S. House speaker from Georgia
would be the one to benefit from a Cain collapse.

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