The Cellar - deck

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and there's 12 of them

Lookin real good Jim - the deck, not you. - Hang the effers and then charge the batteries for a zillion deckboards...

I have to get the thing inspected once it's framed. If it would stop raining.... I had to quit at 5 today because of MORE rain.

Jim, are you going to put a post under the header attatched to the house?

yes. I had designed it with 3 6X6es along there, but I'm thinking that one in each corner will suffice. Attaching that center post would be tricky. I'd need a damn near 20 inch bolt to go through the post, the header and the house. Or angle brackets.... I think it'll hold. here... hold my beer.

I spent most of my day yesterday working on the deck...

I had one of the kids from the detail dept over for a couple hours helping me hang the girder. I doubled up 2x10s on both sides of the post. This will support the middle of the joists. The ends tuck up inside the outer 2x12 cedar boards on the outside, but sit under the inner 2x10 treated boards. More support for the load bearing sides.

The pictures here are taken before I put the bolts in. There are 2 12" bolts running through both girders and the 6x6 posts. I also put the post in the background of the 1st pic in and bolted it to the side of the deck (up by the house) There's one on each side (spex)... I have more pics at home on my camera...these were on my phone... I got the joists hung and saddled... the guy from the early pics will be going back and putting all the nails in tonight if the rain lets up. Then it gets inspected and I can start decking it. Bruce wants the decking diagonal (I opened my stupit mouth and said it would look cool) so... then the railing and stairs and THEN the party! w00t!

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt (Post 752684)

looking good!

I ballpark that deck uses wood designed to carry at least 9 tons. However I don't know if bolts are rated to carry that load. That might be the weak point.

9 tons is maybe 60 actively moving people.

the bolts are 5/8 x 9 around the edges and 5/8 x 12 in the girder. there are 2 bolts in each girder post. there are 3 in the corners and 2 in the front center post.

like this, but longer

Jim, that is an excellent looking deck, really well built...

... except for how that other doofus cocked up the footings. If I were living there that would really bug me. But I'm a bit OCD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum (Post 752710)

Jim, that is an excellent looking deck, really well built...

agreed.

Quote:

... except for how that other doofus cocked up the footings. If I were living there that would really bug me. But I'm a bit OCD.

You won't see them once the decking is installed.

I love it too jimhelm. Very well built.

You realize that in grifftopia though this would be the popsicle stick scale model...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum (Post 752710)

Jim, that is an excellent looking deck, really well built...

... except for how that other doofus cocked up the footings. If I were living there that would really bug me. But I'm a bit OCD.

That corner will be concealed by the stairs, actually. And I plan to box in the other pillars with leftover wood. Wendy can plant flowers or ferns in them.

Had a mis queue tonight. The guy that tacked the joists in tonight used interior nails instead of the 12p galvanized nails I had left there. So Bruce had to go back and pull them all.... Sigh. Do over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV (Post 752723)

I love it too jimhelm. Very well built.

You realize that in grifftopia though this would be the popsicle stick scale model...

Ha! That is a beautiful deck and nicer than mine!

ok, so hanging the girder.... First I just nailed it up to set it in place. I had help with this part.

then i counter sink ( DO THIS FIRST!) using the big 1 1/4 paddle bit. the hole should be as deep as the washer and the head of the bolt so that it fits flush. thusly:

here's the bolt, washers ( the small one goes into the countersunk hole ), the drill bits and the knickety knickety nut. and the other side. long bolt. the girders are 3" each, and the post is 5 1/2"

once the girder is attached to the posts, I was able to start stringing the joists. You can see that it got dark on me... I worked form 1pm till 9:30 on Weds. Had a really fun time. It's so much better when you can SEE progress.

When it's finished, how much space will there be between the top of the deck and the bottom of the door?

I think he said earlier that the deck boards will almost match the bottom of the french doors. (too lazy to look for it though)

Just for you HLJ - see this post.

Let me know when you're ready to attack a second floor project. Advanced level of difficulty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 753123)

Just for you HLJ - see this post.

Very interesting - thanks.

Yeh, I like the way he did it as well. I don't remember how mine was done, but it wasn't that fancy/complex...

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus (Post 753121)

When it's finished, how much space will there be between the top of the deck and the bottom of the door?

Probably about 3/4 to an inch. I will most likely put a sill there. I did that at my house.

I've gotta get flashing to put up under the siding and the decking.

Dude, I hate to bum your stone but if that's Pressure Treated wood you need to use double dipped galvanized or that shit's coming down within the decade.

Sorry Bro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.strongtie.com

Are these alternative products more corrosive than CCA-C?

Testing has indicated that some of the alternative products are more corrosive to steel and some protective coatings applied over steel than Chromated Copper Arsenate (CCA-C). Contact the treated wood chemical supplier for more information and see the Preservative Treated Wood Technical Bulletin (PDF).
What metals and protective coatings does the Pressure Treated Wood Industry recommend for use with these newer products?

Hot-dip galvanized or stainless steel fasteners, anchors and hardware are recommended by the Pressure Treated Wood Industry for use with treated wood. This has been the position of this industry for years and their position has not changed with the transition to the alternative copper-based products. In the past this industry did not address the required levels of galvanizing, however most of those in the industry now provide information regarding the minimum level of galvanizing that should be used.
The thicker the galvanized coating the longer the expected service life of the fastener, connector, anchor, or other hardware will be.

Electroplated / electro galvanized and mechanically galvanized coatings should not be considered to be hot-dip galvanized. (Class 55, or higher, mechanical galvanizing provides galvanizing equivalent to the hot-dip galvanizing used on connectors and fasteners. Ref. ASTM B695 for additional information.)

It is also worth noting that the galvanized coating thickness varies depending on the galvanizing process used. Remember, the thicker the galvanized coating, the longer the expected service life of the steel will be.

Refer to the different chemical manufacturers and/or treaters as well for their recommendations. A list of trade names is included at the bottom of this page.

Are all stainless steels acceptable for use with pressure-treated wood?

All stainless steels may not be acceptable for use with pressure treated wood. Testing has shown that Types 304 and 316 stainless steels perform very well with CCA-C, ACQ-C, ACQ-D Carbonate, CBA-A, and CA-B treated woods. Type 316 stainless steel contains slightly more nickel than other grades, plus 2-4% molybdenum, giving it better corrosion resistance in high chloride environments prone to cause pitting such as environments exposed to sea water.
What is hot-dip galvanizing?

Hot-dip galvanizing is a process of providing a protective coating (zinc) over bare steel. The bare steel is cleaned, pickled, fluxed, then dipped in a molten bath of zinc and allowed to cool prior to inspection and shipping. Additional information is available at www.galvinfo.com. Some anchors and fasteners can be hot-dip galvanized. Steel connectors can be hot-dip galvanized (See below: “What is the difference between Simpson's Hot-Dip Galvanized (HDG) products and products that are hot-dip galvanized after fabrication?” for additional information.)
Terms such as G90 & G185 reflect the galvanized coating thickness that meet the ASTM A653 specification for sheet steel.

What is Mechanical Galvanizing?

Mechanical galvanizing is a process of providing a protective coating (zinc) over bare steel. The bare steel is cleaned and loaded into a tumbler containing non-metallic impact beads and zinc powder. As the tumbler is spun, the zinc powder mechanically adheres to the parts. The zinc coating has “good” durability, but has less abrasion resistance than hot-dip galvanized zinc coatings since it does not metalurgically bond with the steel. Some anchors and fasteners can be mechanically galvanized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by p.2 of [url

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/new-pressure-treated-wood-decks.aspx]Use[/url] corrosion-resistant nails and joist hangers
Unfortunately, boosting the copper content in lumber not only makes the new pressure-treated wood more expensive than the old, but it also makes the new stuff significantly more corrosive -- 5 times more to common steel, according to American Wood Preservers Association (AWPA) test results.

Most people already know that they should use corrosion-resistant nails, screws, and connectors when they're building with pressure-treated wood. But now the stakes are higher. Due to the high risk of galvanic reaction between the copper-impregnated wood and any dissimilar metals, fasteners and flashings should be stainless steel and copper whenever possible. At the very least, you need to use better grades of galvanized fasteners. Unfortunately, the fastener grades aren't always marked on the boxes of nails and screws.

Electrogalvanized stock is rated with a class scale that ranges from 5 to 110. Hot-dipped galvanization ratings are based on the actual weight of the coating. For example, a G-60 rating means that there's 0.60 oz. of zinc per sq. ft. of metal.

The G-60 and G-90 hot-dipped coatings are what we've been using until now. But engineers suggest stepping up to the heavier G-185 coatings for hot-dipped galvanized products, and they recommend class ratings of 40 or above when using electrogalvanized fasteners, such as expansion bolts.

Currently, G-185 is the best galvanized protection that you can buy. Simpson's ZMax line and USP Structural Connectors' Triple Zinc line both are rated at G-185. As for nails and screws, many of the composite coatings that are currently available are still good for the new treatments (see www.osmose.comto read about fastener recommendations), but you should verify this by carefully reading the label.

Perhaps the most important point to keep in mind relating to copper-based wood treatments and galvanic corrosion is to avoid aluminum flashings altogether. Aluminum corrodes quickly in the presence of high copper concentrations.

fauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Actually, that's good timing. The guy that nailed the joists in used interior nails, so we are removing them. We just bought galvanized nails but have not gone back thru and nailed yet. They didn't have stainless nails at the home despot. Not sure if the nails we got are double dipped, but I doubt it. I guess I will order some stainless nails tomorrow.

And will make sure to get copper flashing...

hey jimhelm,

why bother countersinking the bolt heads? it doesn't look like you've countersunk the nuts, and it looks like where the bolt heads are they don't foul anything... Or, I'm just not putting this all together in my head wrong...

In the girder? Cuz the bolts just reach that way.

ah. that's an *excellent* reason!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhelm (Post 753260)

In the girder? Cuz the bolts just reach that way.

Gotta replace those bolts too, Homes.

what if i took them out and dipped them in liquid plastic, or painted them... and reinserted them? The issue is the copper used in the wood reacting with the steel of the bolts, right? they didn't have galvanized bolts that big.

As long as you won't be the guy who has to crawl around under there with all the cat poop when the time comes to try to replace them with bottle jacks all over the place and spiders and shit then yeah, paint and liquid plastic will be great.

It's more than just the copper, the stuff is also very corrosive. I'll scan an article and post some pics later today.

The metal just rusts away.

I predict that in a few years, when somebody dies because their deck falls apart, Home Depot will find itself in court trying to explain why it sells the new pressure treated wood, but not any fasteners or hardware that will work with it.

well, glad I'm glad I used stainless screws. I got some polymer coated screws too...

the bolts are what bothers me now. Thanks for the info, foot, you sarcastic bitch. I will have to see about replacing them before we deck it.

yer welcome. And as I always say, "If it weren't for sarcasm I wouldn't have any casm at all."

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt (Post 753485)

Home Depot will find itself in court trying to explain why it sells the new pressure treated wood, but not any fasteners or hardware that will work with it.

It will be a class-action suit, as memos will be leaked showing that H.D. wanted to sell more expensive non-wood composite deck materials AND to sell that as a replacement for inferior wood to all the owners whose decks fell apart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhelm (Post 753481)

http://www.fisheriessupply.com/produ...122035&bid=405

http://www.fisheriessupply.com/produ...121759&bid=405

They're right down the street. I am certain they ship all over the freakin world. I have purchased a lot of stuff from them over the years, including some stainless. They're great. If you'd like me to be your eyes and hands, I'm willing.

are those 5/8 inch 3 foot rods for $20.51?

i found them at Home Depot in 2 ft lengths for $9.24

just want to be sure I'm reading the Fisheries chart correctly...

looks like it.

you buy it in a store for boats/ships/fisheries, there's a premium. impossible to say from the info given what the stainless steel is, there are differences, lost on me, check with perry winkle or xoxoxobruce maybe.

yes. more $$ at fisheries.

I think I'll call the lumber yard where I got the wood and see what they have.

I haven't done anything with stainless yet, so I'm very fuzzy on the details. If I recall correctly it's the chromium in stainless that makes it corrosion resistant. I think there are even some types of stainless that include titanium in the alloy, which makes me think they'd be even more corrosion resistant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhelm (Post 753549)

I think I'll call the lumber yard where I got the wood and see what they have.

You can use Lag screws

the lumber yard has them in stock. Bruce will go get them tonight. I will return the ones I (he) bought that are no good... and if they won't take them, I'll eat it. My bad.

They're calling it the 'Christmas Deck' did I mention that?

I figgerd I'd have it done no later than Aug 1 when I started it. whook.

I just have no time.

remember this thread?

i've been taking pics, but never take the time to update you.....

gotta go back and see where I left off.

This is the head scratchinest part of a deck.

I guess I didn't take any pictures of how I measured the cuts. shame. that might have been useful to someone, and it would actually take me 1000 words to describe how I did it.

cliff notes version:

You take a 2x12 and lean it up outside of the edge of the deck, then use a level to make a horizontal line from the outside corner of the bottom of that board before you move it. cut that line. this gives you the ability to set it down on that cut, and strike a line where it meets the deck. cut that. You have to figure out how steep you want them first, and allow for 6-7" risers and 9-11" tread depths. ( this is running right down your face, right?) also, leave a notch so you can mount them....

blah blah blah..

anyhow... here are the stringers all next to each other, and temporarily screwed to a couple plates to secure them while I cut a channel that I will use to mount a brace:
Attachment 34875

So I use a circular saw and cut a bunch of cuts with the blade set to the right depth:
Attachment 34876

then I break off all the bits left, and chisel it smooth:
Attachment 34877
Attachment 34878

On the outsides, I sister a stringer ( The board with the zig zag cuts ) to a 2x12 like I described above. This gives it strength to support the stairs, and conceals the edges of the boards from the side view. Some decks just have exposed stringers, but I want this one to look more polished.

Attachment 34880

So, you have to space stringers like joists....16" apart. The stringers are treated wood, the outside, visible boards are cedar. The cedar is 2x12, the treated 2x10. That made measuring a little trickier.

Oh, I also use another board at the top to mount to the deck. It's a 2x12 cedar board, which i set up to mount it to the face of the deck, drilled, and bolted 14" apart, up down pattern.... then removed it and used that to assemble the stairs on the ground.

here's the mounting board:
Attachment 34882

I attached that to the stringers, and used that channel i cut to set a 2x4 in. the 2x4 sits inside the 2x12, but I will need to rip another one in half and screw it up along the edge of the underside of the 2x12 in order to conceal that brace from the side view.

Attachment 34879

mounting the assembled stairs was a job. heave ho.

I cut 3 of them shaped at the top to fit into the underside of the deck just so. If you look at the 1st pic in the previous post, you can see a weird shape at the left. that is the revers of what the underside looks like. I'll use that to attach it to the deck. I also did some internal mounts that i didn't photo.... but trust me.... It's not going to fall off.

Attachment 34881

you can see that 3 of the feet got snapped off. ( Bruce did one, I did one, and the painter did one)...yeah, he had his house painted while this is going on....

ass
Attachment 34886

I reattached them with a single screw and filled in between with river jack to support the bottom step.
Attachment 34884

then I just cut the treads to fit, and nail em in.
Attachment 34885

So... ever split a board where you're nailing near the edge?

Here's a good quick way of avoiding that:

Oh, and I used a little chip to set the distance from the edges so the nails are all in a nice looking row....
Attachment 34887

take the nail and flip it over.....give it a couple whacks like that where you are going to drive it in. This punches a weak spot down through the board or something magic happens or I don't know really what...
Attachment 34888

flip the nail over, and put it through. unless you're on a knot, or real dry wood, or huge nails... you will not split it.

I use a pilot hole if I am worried about that though...

Attachment 34889

oh, this also counter sinks the nail and it goes in flush without bruising the board.

this saw I got has been invaluable. It's $25 and worth every penny. It's a Japanese design I think from way back....
Attachment 34890

It's got coarse teeth, but is super thin. cuts clean. great for finishing cuts where the circular saw's circular nature leaves you those fang shaped bits attached. also used it to shorten one of the posts by 1/4" and cut a groove into a stringer that got wonky.

Attachment 34891

ok... thats all for now. just have to deck it and do the railings... then odds and ends like the door sill and stuff. Should be done by Thanksgiving!

3foot got snapped off?!!

Thanks, but do you like the deck?

What did you do about the bolts (from previous discussion).