Bullshit. It is only one side. What are the expenditures? You don't do tax returns do you?

Ahem.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/subsidy.asp

(emphasis my own)

Distorted logic problem no. 345, sec. 8: Coffee does NOT equal petroleum even though they both are black.

Starbucks does NOT need to be subsidized in the public interest, much as you or I may enjoy a cuppa joe. In fact, my small town manages to survive without a single Starbucks establishment even on the distant mountain horizon. We do have quite a few gas stations, though.

My greatest threat to personal liberty at the moment is the price of gas. Which right now is $3.77/gallon at the local City Market. Answer me this, oh grasshopper: How come folks from major metro areas back East are paying $4.15 to our $3.77? It's not supply and demand. Cortez has a mere 10,000 in population and is about 50 miles from the nearest larger town - the vast metroplex of Durango, Colorado. So, what's up with your benevolent oil companies there, hmmmm?

the majority of my engineering field experience is in tank truck loading facilities and compressor stations. i know how much they paid for design and construction of projects done. be it grass roots or upgrades. here's a little tid bit. when a tank truck loads it's tanks to bring the fuel to the gas station it is temperature compensated for density so that when the truck takes on 1000 gallons, it takes on 1000 gallons whether it's 32 degrees outside or 100. they don't compensate for temperature at the pump when you fill your tank. little bit goes a looooong way. granted that would be on the gas station itself. so that could go either way for profit or loss. but still.

All based on what your state taxes are and how far you are from the source.

Is there or is there not an End of Year tax right off for truckers, taxi drivers, or other people who use their trucks and autos for business? Because I sure as hell get one.

Here is the rub. The Government loves their revenue. They love to collect taxes. They live for it. So on the one hand they give breaks to the oil companies to make them feel good and on the other tax the shit out of them. Ever hear of a Well Head Tax? They basically tax them at every exchange of goods and service. Everyone talks about how much money they made. Cool, how much tax did they pay? No one talks about that. I don't know if this is accurate but I did hear lately that they collect 8 cents per gallon in profit. WTF?!!? the rest go to profit for the middle men and taxes. Which is why I brought up the coffee issue. How much tax does a $5 cup of Starbucks cost that company? 8 cents? What is their overhead to make tap water mixed with ground coffee into a profit?

I think you had one too many drinks today if you dont know the difference between income and profit:

http://famousdc.com/wp-content/uploa...1/04/r-oil.jpg

I feel for Big Petroleum. I really do. Yesterday Exxon reported profits that amount to $4.93 million an hour on sales of nearly $53 million an hour. :eek:

And they had to pay taxes before they figured out their profits. Tisk, tisk.

As Urbane Guerrilla would say, "Put away your shot glass."

:lol2:

And just think, Obama and this Administration shut down American Oil exploration in the Gulf, putting hundreds of thousands of people out of work and forcing them to begin to move the oil platforms to other parts of the world. Poor pitiful us.... Thank Obama.

word merc. word.
i have no idea about the end of year tax write off. i just designed and built the darned things.

With you bro. Not an attack on you. Just saying it is a big world out there with lots of moving parts and not a swinging dick on this Forum is in the know enough to be able to authenticate the big picture. We all get just bits of it and have to do the best we can with what we can gather on our own. I don't trust anyone who thinks they have all the answers, because I sure the hell do not.

oh i did NOT take that as an attack, i was just sayin and you are right....no one has the answers.


only OPEC :rolleyes:

Say, wasn't there a teensy little oil spill incident when that happened? I seem to remember a picture of a dead sea turtle or something. Weren't hundreds of thousands of people impacted by that? Nah, I must be imagining things again. :rolleyes:

And BTW, I'm I a swinging CHICK not dick. ;)

lol sam, but yeah, oil exploration has its downfalls only we as humans need it. the oil that is. it is what drives our economy unfortunately. just sayin. the cost of transportation of consumer goods dictates partly the cost charged to the consumer. (i'm a little brunk rigtht now so i ain't slammin ya) so in short, if oil were to come down in price then consumer products could or should come down in price. the city of houston just started lay offs today or yesterday. don't remember. either way, less cops (ok i can handle that one, sorry sarge) less collectors, less government workers. what does that equate? more people looking for jobs. more unemployment. worse economy. oil has GOT to do something or we are truly FUCKED.

double posting. am i the only one that sees this or am i ignorant?

Heed your own words.

Not sure what you mean about about "oil (doing) something." Maybe I'M the ignorant one. If you're saying the petroleum companies should lower oil prices, I couldn't agree more.

Other than Merc, who must be fabulously wealthy, everyone here and most everyone in the US has been hard hit by the downturn in the economy and upturn in oil. Some sites I visit are calling the elephant in the national living room, "The Great Recession."

This "swinging chick" can only give you a mouse's eye view of things, but from what I read, there are many of us mice in the same position. Jobs in Cortez have tanked - even with the ever popular tourist season coming up. In addition, state cuts to the food stamp program (SNAP) have made life even harder if you are out of work and have a family - or even if you're just out of work.

Increases in gas costs will cause more people to stay at home and fewer tourist dollars flowing into Cortez. A disaster because this town pretty much lives and dies by the tourist.

Merc can lobby for Exxon et al all he pleases (he's GOT to own petroleum stock!), but the fact remains, higher gas prices are only going to make a bad economy worse. And THEN what will happen to Starbucks, eh? :eyebrow:

Oil is a resource that is getting harder and more expensive to locate, extract and process. Much of the "light, sweet crude" has been used up.

An American geologist, M. King Hubbert, predicted in 1956 that United States oil production would peak between 1965 and 1970 - and he was correct. The same technique has been used to predict that world oil production would peak somewhere around now. The peak doesn't mean that the world is out of oil - just that it becomes harder and harder (and more expensive) to extract the oil that's left in the ground.

Peak oil isn't a new idea. There's even a society dedicated to researching peak oil (see ASPO: a network of scientists and others, having an interest in determining the date and impact of the peak and decline of the world's production of oil and gas, due to resource constraints. http://www.peakoil.net/).

We won't know if we've reached the peak until a few years after we've passed it. It's best to start preparing now.

Somehow the rest of the world survives on much higher oil prices.

Much of the rest of the world has more reasonable public transportation than we do. The rail system in Europe is outstanding.

Latin American countries possess large fleets of funky old buses which usually can get you to your destination unless you have a head-on with a farm cart.

I don't know about you Aussies except that you tend to have vast spaces to cover - just like we do. Can a person get by reasonably without a car in a smaller Australian town? So how DO you guys do it?

Re Peak Oil: I think most folks have at least heard of this concept. I am quite in agreement with you on that subject. We need to be doing more in regard to alternative energy resources. I hope the US wakes up to reality before lack of oil flushes us down the old poop shoot.

Don't cave in to your Subaru's demands, it's a slippery slope. The next thing you know you'll be changing the oil, putting new spark plugs in (probably wires too) and replacing tires when they get smooth.

You need to show that car who's boss.

Disclaimer: I am not an auto mechanic or Motor Vehicle Inspection official.

As Sheik Ahmed Zaki Yamani, the Saudi oil minister during the 1970's, said, ''The Stone Age didn't end for lack of stone, and the oil age will end long before the world runs out of oil.''

I don't trust anyone who repeatedly posts while ignoring obvious facts.

Buy ten gallons of gas. How many of those ten gallons actually move the car? A little over one. Why burn well over 8 of every ten gallons as waste heat and noise? Because gasoline at $10 per gallon is that cheap. And because those who obstruct innovation do so to maximize personal profits or a political agenda. Do not use intelligence that requires an education and ... "did you see those numbers?" Most do not.

The 70 Hp/liter engine was ready for production in GM in 1975. Why was it not standard even in 2010 GM cars? Because oil has always been that ridiculously cheap even when people were embarrassingly worrying about $2 per gallon gasoline. And because "drill baby drill" (and other soundbytes) is easier for the most naive to understand. After all, Barbie told them, "Math is hard." So eyes glaze over.

The solutions always start by doing more with less. Always. But that is not what extremists want. Extremists would rather invent unjustified wars to get "our" oil rather than be educated. An educated person starts by noting cars that get no better gas mileage than 1960 cars. Even weigh less and still got no better mileage. Because oil has always been so ridiculously cheap.

When will the price of oil rise to reflect its real value? When major shortages finally exist. Grandkids will finally realize how dumb their grandparents were in 2011. How so many could be so manipulated by lies such as "drill baby drill" rather than facts that make productive and healthy societies - innovation. Education that would make Rush Limbaugh a "persona non grata".

Unfortunately too many hype lies and spin about “More Oil!” rather than deal with a reality. Near zero innovation for the past 30 years. GM is a benchmark trophy of that problem that Limbaugh, et al encourage. There is no shortage of oil. There is a shortage of innovation and too much "knowledge" provided by a political agenda.

Need we mention another trophy of that stupidity? Ethanol.

Revenue minus expenditures is profit.

Gas went up 30c here over the weekend, 50c since last Monday. So I'm thinking $6 gas by maybe Friday?

yay! (i hope)

from here

and Sam, what i mean by oil doing something is the price of a barrel must come down. oil drives the economy. the oil companies are getting phat while we, the consumer are starving. i've had to go back to ramen noodles at work. why? because it costs me $20 round trip to drive to work and home. 5 days a week? $100. try that at $10 bucks an hour. it truly sucks. back in the day when i made $40 an hour i wouldn't have let it bother me so much. but when, now, after paying my bills i have no more than $30 to my name on payday......

gas has dropped here 6 cents a gallon over the weekend. do you think the analysts are correct with their prediction of a 50cent drop over the next 30 days??

GAWD i hope so. i can only imagine what it costs your city, or any for that matter, to operate their fleet in a month or let alone a week.

No. I believe they will trot out the usual excuses for not dropping the price after being all too willing to raise it. It's the summer driving season, demand is up, costs are now higher...etc etc etc ad nauseum.

If the price of a barrel of oil foes up so much as a nickel, the price of gas goes up a dime overnight. When the price of that same barrel of oil goes down a nickel, the price of gas either stays the same or only goes down a fraction of how much it went up. Fifty cents a gallon drop? I don't see it happening.

So apparently nowhere has variations like here? We gained over 50c in a week, then dropped 30c in two days......

We're paying $3.73 a gallon in my area

lucky fuckers.....

I filled up yesterday.

4.09/gal. Cost me 57.00 American.

That's a record for me.

$3.85 here this afternoon.

paid $3.71 near my townhome but saw it on I-45 at a chevron for $3.99 in the same day.

We just hit $4. or there abouts.

Anyone who thinks that the petrol companies are getting subsidies is a god damm fool. They are the same tax breaks all the other big companies get.

Subsidies are primarily in the form of royalty relief for off shore drilling (and some drilling on federal lands).

Until the 1990s, oil companies payed a royalty fee to drill in these areas and the fees generated at least $100 billion in revenue to the goverment over the years.

In the 90s, a policy was adopted to waive the royalty fees as an incentive to enourage drillng when the price of a barrel of oil was around $20. The waiver was tied to the price of oil so that if it rose signicantly, the waiver would no longer be available.

In the 2005 Energy Bill, the waiver of the royalty fees was extended but no longer tied to the price of oil, so that energy companies are still getting the waiver. It was never the intent to continue to waiver when a barrel of oil was at the current high price.

Yes, it is a subsidy.

OK, lets assume that is true for a moment. We'll start there and end them before moving on to the next category. Any suggestions? What other companies are getting them? GE comes to mind for some reason, but I think maybe that's related to taxes... Anyone?

Well, if the oil companies aren't getting subsidies, I guess they don't have to worry about having them taken away.

And they can just forget about the legislation.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/....html?hpt=Sbin

So, what are they meeting about?

...or how much they donate..

Like I said already. My reply to that argument is "This is just the beginning. We'll get to the other industries like farming, cell/fios/internet/banking/ect shit later."

On the other hand, no this will never happen. They've been playing this game for too many years. I wonder if they do this public politicking just to get their donors (read corporate masters) to cough up more cash.

I read the article. I was referring to the assertion that the oil companies don't get subsidies, for us god damm fools. ;)

I was moving on from that assertion - you gdf.

:lol:

I found THIS very interesting. Apparently the dems want an investigation into price fixing by the oil companies.

Good - lets start investigating everyone who charges more than the millionaires in congress think is fair. Next up is cell phone providers. I'm over $300 for 4 phones, internet and whatever. That's more than I pay for gas in a month... well it was. They are getting pretty close right now.
WTF?

Are you somehow compelled to pay for those items? Unplug!

I'd rather not drive.

Look at that, you've just figured out how to save $600 per month.

Apples and oranges.

There is an appropriate role for regulatory bodies to investigate manipulation of prices and the role of speculators and index traders in oil futures markets. Such trading practices or futures markets do not exist in the cell phone industry.

second thoughts:
The DoJ and the FCC are investigating, appropriately IMO, the potential impact the AT&T merger with T-Mobile may have on the cell phone market. :)

hey, while we're bent over........

oh, joy.

from Here

i can't imagine being taxed by the mile. people like me and I.M. would get truly anal raped with no lube. or at least with a $120 barrel of west texas sweet crude.

plt--

don't you think you're already there? If you're driving so much, you're buying more fuel, and paying more in gas taxes. In my mind, this would be an effort to fund the expense of the investment in our roads with taxes that are paid by the people who use the roads. No driving, no wear and tear, no taxes. More driving, more wear and tear, more taxes. There's an effort to do that already with a tax on fuel. More efficient cars use less, and are taxed proportionally less, and vice versa. I think this would be another way to 'PAYGO', so to speak.

I believe it would have to be introduced with a corresponding reduction in the taxes on fuel, and NOT merely an additional tax.

Yeah, didn't look at it that way, however, i don't see them easing taxes fuel bought. Kinda like the sam houston tollway aka beltway 8 here in houston. They where supposed to do away with the toll booths when it was completed as per the write up for voting approval. It is such a cash cow that they will never do away with them. I'm not saying that a lower fuel tax would happen, i just think its unlikely.

On the surface, this seems fair. But let's look deeper, shall we?

Communities, societies, the people within, pay all sorts of taxes that for things that keep that community running.

For instance, I don't have kids in school. Does that mean I don't pay school taxes? No, it does not. And I think I SHOULD pay school taxes, being a part of a community. (This was just my handiest example, disclaimering being I want to see the youth of the society have a chance to succeed and good schools can do that.)

We pay taxes to keep police and fire services. I don't often use the police or fire, but I damn sure don't mind paying the taxes, as part of the community, for if I ever do need them, or family needs them, or a neighbor or a friend. Police use the roads. See what I'm getting at? It's all kind of intermingled.

What a funny country. There's a predominant attitude of: I got mine you get yours. I made a transition to try to get mine, or more of mine than I was getting, and I get a funny feeling that now I am penalized for daring to not work across the street.

And if I hear the old arguments...1) Well just MOVE or 2) other countries pay so much MORE...I might wail and gnash my teeth. Moving isn't a viable option in many cases. And I live here, where we have the public transportation options you can fit on the head of a pin, or on a pinhead. I could move into the city...THEN I'll get to use the police department a LOT.

Finally, do you really think that some of the folks who have finally found a job after being unemployed for so long can just run out and buy a hybrid? Easy to sit on the sideline and say "well, it would be BEST if you..." but none of that is helpful if the ideas aren't viable. In real life, not fantasy (this is how it should be) land.

addendum:

And paying taxes for my community isn't making billionaires out of ANYONE. ;)

Well said.

I don't know what the rules are, but our grocery store offers rewards for buying stuff, where you get a slip of paper at checkout and you enter that code when you buy gas from Shell, and you get a discount. No idea how it's calculated, but we just buy our normal groceries at our normal store, and we get these coupons every couple of weeks.

Today's coupon was for 40 cents off a gallon at Shell. Not bad. Instead of $4.01, it was $3.61/gallon to fill the tank.

If you have Giant grocery stores where you are, it might be worth a look. With our small car, it only amounts to a savings of $3.50 or so a tank, but hey, free money.

I think the countries that have all the oil should just keep it and eat it and since we grow most of the food we will keep that and eat it. Who will be better off? The non driving food eaters or those that have oil? :eyebrow:

Do we produce enough oil to grow the food and get it to market?