Ok, thanks, I'll be here googling all that stuff you said...

So... is PZ saying I should put that boot disk back in and try to run some sort of antivirus thinger?

Yes run from the cd again. See if there is fdisk.exe on the cd. If there is, you can fix the master boot record (boot sector) using fdisk.

From a dos box, run "fdisk /mbr" without the quotes.

If you don't have fdisk, look for some other disk utility that looks like it might work on the boot sector or boot record.

and No Jinx its NOT FuckDis , its fdisk

fix_hdc ?

Incidentally, when the boot disk started, it asked if I wanted to start the network or something so I said yes, and then it asked if I wanted to start from a: or c:

Is there a way to search for this fdisk? Or, would it be under programs?

According to this web page. There should be a tool PTDD (Partition Tool Disk Doctor) that can fix boot sectors. Here's a description. http://www.ptdd.com/fixboot.htm

I'm assuming that you had a standard boot sector on that machine. It would normally only be changed if you ran multiple operating systems on it or if you had a raid on it. Otherwise it should be safe to blast the boot sector.

Under programs Ive got
PassPro
peinst
putty

DiskCheck and other various things I thought I'd try don't see a C:

I think Im too retarded to do this but I really appreciate your help.

The programs that typical solve that were fixboot, fixmbr, etc. I was under the impression fdisk had long been discontinued - moved to the recovery console.

Much of what you just went through would be solved (learned) immediately by the diagnostic. And again, it has at least three sources - on the hard drive, on a CD-Rom, and from the manufacturer web site. If it does not exist, well, you now appreciate why I only recommend computer that provide those diagnostics.

Going back on what you learned. First, BIOS often only be entered from a cold reboot (not from Cntrl-Alt-Del).

Bios then talks to and reads the disk drive computer. In your case the 320 Mb and other disk drive serial numbers, etc. After that, a diagnostic would move on to confirming disk drive computer can actually read all sectors on the disk and other important points.

Once that is done, then boot the machine from another completely different CD - your Windows boot CD. One that is something called a Recovery Console that contains the 'fix windows software on the disk' programs. Either you boot windows or your boot the Recovery Console that contains Fixboot, FixMbr, Bootcfg and other programs.
Details are provided in:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307654


Meanwhile, appreciate why I prefer companies that provide those comprehensive hardware diagnostics including Dell and HP. It makes problems so massively easier to understand. In your case, the diagnostics would have immediately said which disk drives actually existed - and not confused the help who assumed the drive had failed.

We had a Dell die 1 year and 1 week after purchase. Boat anchor.
Jim's current HP is the biggest piece of shit we've ever owned. He fights with it more than he uses it.
Thanks for your help.

Are you interested in pursuing this further?

If you get totally fed up, you can always reformat the drive and reinstall.

I gave up... Jim is taking it apart at the moment.

how do you format a drive the computer can't see?

Hook it up as an external drive for a working PC

there's stuff on there we'd like to try to save

Of course the computer was seeing it. The disk size (320 mb?) and other information from the drive was reported. In the thread, you had only started. Hardly did anything to fix it. Did not load and execute any diagnostics. Have no idea yet what the system can and cannot see.

Clearly, your CD-Rom loaded programs. Therefore the Recovery Console, comprehensive hardware diagnostics, and other repair functions were available and could be executed. I will never understand why so many give up when so may useful options exist and were not attempted. Formatting a disk is the fool's option.

Disassembling the machine all but guarantees you will not fix it. Numerous options were provided from one who never loses a computer - who even fixed computers declared by the Geek Squad as unfixable. But I cannot help when, well, there is a long list of detailed reason why I posted what I did. And received only "quitter's replies" rather than information necessary for the solution.

fuck, speak english, man.

Like I said. The most difficult part of the problem is not hardware.

you keep talking about diagnostics that I cannot access.

use a pronoun or two and try again?

:lol:

running PTDD Fdisk:

says Error: Partition 1 on harddisk1 start sector is 33. The right start sector is 1. Do you want to correct?

Diagnostics are on hard drive, on CD-Rom, and on manufacturer's web site. You cannot access any of those? Then how are you accessing the Cellar? Again, I am not having difficulty with your computer problem. I am having trouble with you reading what was posted.

And, I also noted, only better computer manufacturers provide those diagnostics. Again, only repeating what was posted before.

Also discussed was the Recovery Console. From previous posts, that also is available.

PTDD loaded because you can load and execute programs. This is the first time I have seen actual numbers posted. Why were you withholding critically important numbers? Meanwhile, nothing I posted discusses or even assumes PTDD exists. That was another and completely different solution. Why is this the first time you posted about sector 33? If you want useful assistance, you post numbers until your fingers cry. Because nothing posted is useful without numbers. Quote the messages in detail especially when those numbers appear to have no purpose.

That PTDD implies (but does not yet say) you are fully accessing the hard drive. Meanwhile, how many partitions exist on the hard drive? Comprehensive hardware diagnostics are typically located in their own partition. Does that other partition exist?

Now, that error message says nothing about the hardware diagnostics if they exist on the hard drive. And for the fifth time, those diagnostics are also on CD-Rom and on the manufacturer's web site (if that manufacturer is minimally responsible).

Meanwhile, at the very beginning, I noted that if those diagnostics do not exist, then you need the diagnostic downloaded from the disk drive manufacturer. When jinx read the BIOS, that manufacturer name and model number was read by the BIOS (she complained because it said nothing about "C:"). More critical numbers. Those numbers identify which diagnostic from the disk drive manufacture is available. Then the entire disk drive program is loaded from a CD-Rom (or the USB memory stick, or whatever) so that no Windows and no Recovery Console and no Comprehensive Hardware diagnostic is executing.

Why did I list each in the same sentence. Each one is a program. You only execute that program - no other program - to solve problems. That disk drive manufacturer program is the replacement for Windows - is loaded by the BIOS and executes just like windows (or DOS) without anything else executing. Therefore the results are simple and completely informative.

Once diagnostic verifies hardware parts of the disk drive, only then are you ready to view (diagnosis) the software parts of that disk drive. Tools to look at the software side are Windows (booted from the hard drive or CD-Rom), the Recovery Console (which I have detailed so many times and received no acknowledgement), or PTDD.

Everything here is written at a layman’s level. If it has useful information, then do what I always do to understand anything - read it three or more times. If you read something the first time and understand it, then it probably has near zero useful facts. Again, it is not the computer that is causing so much difficulty. I keep posting all three sources of that comprehensive hardware diagnostic. How can you not have it and yet still access the Cellar? Because you did not read what I posted multiple times.

we have 5 computers

ironic
again and again. it's a Sony.
please see post #14 for a link to the Ultimate Boot CD which I mentioned in the first post.
I don't recall specifically, but I think it was partitioned in two pieces...the C and the D recovery partition.

you base your assumption on the incorrect premise that i only have one computer. your advice is useless if it is incomprehensible. I appreciate you taking the time to attempt to help us, but clearly I'm too stupid to comprehend these words of yours. Your condescending attitude is NOT appreciated.

Everything I've seen leads me to think that the C drive has died. I took it out and put it back in last night.....rebooted without the boot disc, held my finger on the drive to see if i could feel it spinning up, and felt nothing.

does anyone that can speak english have any other ideas? Tony? Mitch? Pete?

My son has a Sony Viao. The description of your original post happened to his and it's new! ( ish) I asked him what he did to fix it. He said he had to buy reformatting c/ds

That's all I know... except I won't ever buy a Sony laptop.

Diagnostics would not be interesting in a case where the MBR is trashed.

If it was me at this point I would probably try booting the original install CD/DVD and doing a Repair install.

Repair for XP

Repair for Vista

Repair for 7

That's a good idea toad.


You might also try pming mbpark. It think he specializes in this kind of thing.

BTW, I'd guess this is most certainly your problem. I suspect a virus trying to mess with your machine.

Where are you on this?

I dunno, Jim. PTDD was accessing something when it gave you that information above. You don't have more than one physical hard drive in this thing, do you?

Unfortunately, I'm stuck at work, and it's getting busy.

I dunno if jinx wants to try playing with this today...but if anyone wants to chat tonight, I'll be there by 10 pm probably.

pm

We've got people coming tonight, but I'll try to check in if I can.

Sounds like BigV might be offering too.

I gotta get out of the house.

While I'm waiting, I'll think out loud about problems like this. I'm not trying to patronize anyone.

The computer has a cpu, the central processing unit. The "big" chip that gets all the headlines. It's like the engine in a car. It takes a lot of parts to make a car go, but the engine is the component that gets the badge with displacement or aspiration, etc. In the computer, the cpu can only run instructions, just as the engine can only run on gas. When the computer is **first turned on**, there are no instructions. Lots of stuff has to happen first.

The first thing that happens when the power's turned on is a chip(s) in the computer that has built into it just a few instructions is activated. These instructions are the barest minimum that are needed to tell the computer where the pieces and parts are. Where to find more instructions and where to put the result of those instructions. The input and output systems of the computer. This is the BIOS, the Basic Input Output System. Every computer has something like this.

It is this bios that we were all frothing about at the start (and well into the thread). It is activated at the very *very* beginning, and it is the part where the computer gets to learn what hardware is where, like... your drive C:. What's on the C: drive? More instructions of course, not to mention your data. This is why we wanted to find out if the bios could see drive C:. Turns out you could see C:, a very good thing.

Now, once the bios has id'ed all the parts in the system (more or less), it hands control off to the next part, usually drive C:. Usually, but not always. For example, lj was able to boot (btw, boot is short for bootstrap loader. A bootstrap loader is a program on a chip/disk that starts a system from essentially nothing, just as you would levitate yourself by lifting up on your own bootstraps.) the system from the cdrom drive. The bios knew enough to boot, then hand off control to the next system. C: drive in this case was not working so the cdrom was the next choice.

At this point, we've booted the system to the point when we can use the instructions on **some** disk (hd or cdrom). Now the process repeats itself kind of, just like you'd shift gears in a car as you accelerate. This boot (not power on boot, but from a disk boot) process also has a starting point. The beginning part is called the Master Boot Record. This is a bit like the first groove on a vinyl LP (children, seek out your parents or grandparents for information on "vinyl LP"). If this groove is functioning properly, it guides the needle and tonearm to the rest of the record where the music plays, and so it works on your hd (hard drive). If this groove (boot record) has a scratch, you're kind of screwed. The needle and tonearm will not get to the music. Same is true for the hd, if the boot record is messed up, like if it is expecting to see the next instruction in location 1 but is instead directed to location 33, trouble will result. Imagine trying to listen to the record from the first groove and then jumping to groove 33. You'd miss a lot, right? So would the computer.

Fixing this in the computer is best left to a program that can detect this trouble and using the repair commands in that program. One of the previous post described this process with the fixmbr command. This seems like good advice in this case.

This is a good place to stop for now.

After reading that explanation in plain English, I'm awaiting the next installment with bated breath. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Very well written post BigV - understandable even! thanks. Oh and what that retired xoB said.

Obviously you have a second computer because you are on the cellar. Therefore you have everything you need to get diagnostics and to fix the first computer. Everything posted is easy - designed for layman. But, again, your problem is that you are not reading what was posted.

For example. You have a second computer. So you go to the disk drive manufacturer's web site and get the disk drive diagnostic. How is that so difficult? And again, the problem is not your broken computer. The problem is you did not read simple directions to see, for example, that Sony should have provided those diagnostics on the hard drive, on a provided CD-Rom, and on their web site. You have a second computer. That means you use that second computer to get diagnostics. Or use the CD-Rom that only better computer manufacturers provide for free.

It is a Sony. That does not mean anything except that it is a Sony. That does not say the computer is from a responsible manufacturer. If Sony does not provide comprehensive hardware diagnostics, then it is no better than Gateway.

PTDD - another completely different solution to the same problem, says the computer is talking to the disk drives computer. What that all means is explained in simplest English in the previous post. But again, it is completely new to you. So how many times did you reread it? And then you ask questions about each sentence you do not grasp - one sentence or paragraph at a time.

All this silliness about not understanding is emotions (also called frustration). You must dispose of that your #1 problem to solve this problem. We already went through that previously with your Dell. A simple solvable problem that remained unsolved only because you got frustrated quickly and gave up.

If anything is confusing, then emotionally get angry and blame others. The learned keep asking questions every hour of the month until they learn. You post frustration rather than ask questions. Therefore I cannot help you with your confusion and frustration. You don't ask questions. You just keep expressing emotions. And again, the most difficult problem is not the computer. The most difficult problem is getting you to address the problem without letting emotions (frustration) take hold.

PTDD says you have two partitions? One is the recovery partition? Then only the Recovery Console can access that partition. And computer's CPU and disk drive's CPU are talking to each other.

Forget, for now, referenced to C: and D: drives. It exists only when discussing disk drive 'software'. First you must establish disk drive 'hardware'. Define were so many ways to do that. Does Sony provide comprehensive hardware diagnostics? Or is Sony another inferior computer company like Gateway? Then move on to other solutions such as the diagnostic from the disk drive manufacturer. Or the Recovery Console as provided in that Microsoft 'easy to understand' description. Or use the PTDD software to only see what the disk drive is doing. Or use the hyperlinks provided by UT.

In every case they are ideal layman's descriptions. And in every case, you do not even being to understand what is written until the third reread. That is how technical things work.

Caution - fixing any partition or file on a drive without first establishing hardware (disk) is good (without first using comprehensive hardware diagnostic or disk drive manufacturer's diagnostic) can result in loss of all data on the disk.

Everything I posted assumed you have a second computer. That means you have Sony's comprehensive diagnostic available from all three sources (on disk, on CD-Rom, and on their web site) as I have posted now six times.

As BigV described, BIOS is a program that exists only in the motherboard. BIOS then loads other programs from the hard drive, from the CD-Rom, or from a memory stick.

Programs it can load are comprehensive hardware diagnostic (from hard drive, CD-Rom, or from what was downloaded from the Sony web site), Console Recovery program (from the Microsoft CD-Rom), PTDD (from that CD-Rom), disk drive manufacturer's diagnostic (downloaded from the disk drive web site), DOS, or Windows (from hard drive or Microsoft CD-Rom). You choose what BIOS will load and execute by what you put into the CD-Rom or memory stick. Or by pressing F2 to select what you want to execute from that menu (same menu that jinx choose to boot with or without network support).

Fixmbr is only one of many repair programs available on the Recovery Console (one a Microsoft and Sony provided CD-Rom). It will fix software on the disk drive.

However if a diagnostic does not first confirm disk drive hardware is OK, then fixmbr might cause permanent data damage. That is why more responsible computer manufacturers (ie Dell, HP) provide comprehensisve hardware diagnostics for free. And why everyone knows Gateway and E-machines are crap.

Provided are numerous options. Same thing is posted by so many with different words. Every post at layman's level.

All solutions load and execute only when the BIOS does so. You select what the BIOS loads either by installing the appropriate CD-Rom (or memory stick) or by using that F2 key to select what to load.

Everything you have posted implies the motherboard CPU is talking to the disk drive's CPU.

Hi,

Please do the following:

1. From the ultimate boot CD, go to Start -> Run -> compmgmt.msc
2. go to Disk Management from there.
3. See if you have a Disk 0 hard drive.
4. If you do, then go Start -> Run -> cmd
5. Run chkdsk c: /f from the Command Prompt

That will fix any small HD issues and let you mount the drive.

Ok, I will [attempt to] do that right now. Thank you.

1. check
2. check
3. no - only thing there is the dvd drive

Yeah, that's what I would have expected given what you already tested. It sounds like the bios (hardware level) sees the hard drive, but the OS level doesn't. mbpark will have the best idea of what to do next.

It would be interesting to know though, whether your windows install cd gives you the option to try to fix the os.

I wonder where that is... I'll look for it.

That says software cannot see the disk drive. Explains why Windows cannot load from the disk drive. Only implies a disk hardware failure. Your previous BIOS tests implied drive hardware was working.

If diagnostics (ie test from the disk drive manufacturer) report the drive hardware defective, then only way to obtain data is to replace electronics on the drive OR a data recovery service OR attempt same with the disk attached to another computer interface.

If diagnostics report disk hardware as good, programs on PTDD, other disk recovery software (ie SpinRite from Gibson Research) or Recovery Console (the windows install cd) probably can restore the disk or recovery data.

First question I have is: How new is this Vaio? It may have a newer SATA controller that Windows/UBCD may not recognize.

Do you have a USB to SATA drive interface? You may want to get one, plug the drive into it, and use UBCD to see if it can see the drive.

Not new, sept 08

I assume I don't but I'll ask jim...

The purpose of that test is to see if there's a problem with the onboard SATA controller on the motheboard.

I made a joke - much like Jim would do, except since Jim is the one with the issue he could not. There was nothing nasty about it.

I can't find the box of disks that came with laptops.... I think the squirrel sold them or something. Jim will find it when he gets home.

Sorry to be incompetent mb, but I appreciate your help.

That's a piece of hardware
 

The USB to SATA interface is a piece of hardware. It costs like $20 online, and it lets you connect hard drives over USB so you can see if they work, or if it is a problem with the motherboard.

DVD drives usually run off of a different controller. Therefore, the DVD drive working and the hard drive not working can be indicative of a bad controller.

Oh! Yeah, I think Jim and zippy were discussing this option last night. We don't have one unless Jim bought one today.

He works in a different state, I haven't really talked to him yet today...

hopefully

All mine do, they're all from Dell.

The question is whether the installer will 1) See the hard drive 2) Recognize that there is a previous install on it. If both those things are true, then it might be useful.

If, as mb ponders, it is a controller issue, then the windows install disk would be no use at all.

MB - are the hard drive controllers built into the motherboard on laptops?

I can't find the stuff that came with these two computers. and I don't have one of those SATA things.

a note.....

when in the BIOS screen, the Hard drive shows up, but it's grey and not selectable.



i can't find the discs, but zippy found this: http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu...NFW140EH&LOC=3

is what I need on there, assuming that's our computer?

Yes they are, that means if the HD works, you have to either find someone really good at soldering individual chips at a near-microscopic level, or replace the motherboard.

What does it show for the hard drive in the BIOS screen?