The movies I like the best (and YMMV, I realize that) are visual and visceral, not cerebral. With that critera, Avatar is a fantastic movie, and "totally awesome" in the original sense of awesome.

And y'all are just sourpusses who neglect their inner child. AND there's nothing wrong with the damn font.

;)

What do you do when you want to hear a good song, look at an oil painting?

a good story, then, if you don't like my metaphor.

I don't necessarily go to the movies for the storyline; I go for a visual, and sometimes auditory experience. Movies which do not provide that get relegated to second tier, at-home, small screen.

I, too, was reluctant to see Avatar because even though I love most animated films, something about this one didn't sit right with me...something to do with the faces with those big eyes. I didn't look into the movie at all and when my husband wanted to use free tickets on the movie, even then, I declined (we saw Sherlock Holmes instead). He finally put his foot down and it was the next movie we saw and I ended up really enjoying it. I thought the effects would bother me, but I became totally immersed in them and the story. Yes, it was predictable and the ending was simply too fairy tale, but it did entertain me. At one point though, I was sitting there wondering if the audience in my theater was actually getting the message that they are part of this military/industrial complex that destroys whatever gets in its way? And always wins, unlike in this movie.

Now you're just sounding snooty.

Of all the things I've said, one off-the-cuff comment made in jest (in reply to the immediately preceeding post) is what you're getting from this?

I get that sometimes I sounds snooty in my critiques. However, does a piano player keep playing Mary Had a Little Lamb, once he's learned Mozart? ;)

RE: papyrus
Usually the Cellar is about 2-4 weeks ahead of the curve when it comes to current events. The real typeface nerds have been moaning about how crappy papyrus is for a long long time now. (like 20 dolla long time)

Anyway, Dar, put "Helvetica" on your queue and you will be entertained and gain an insight into the world of typographers and how passionate they are about something 99% of the population are/is blissfully unaware of.

sometimes it's the little things that get ya

I recently saw the movie, Shorts (Adventures of the Wishing Rock), and was amused by the typographer nerdiness. One of the kids was named, "Helvetica" -- last name Black. Thank you, Robert Rodriguez!

(also, the main character in that movie was the same kid who played young James T. Kirk in ST:AOS--the only casting misstep I could see in that movie)

It seems like, among the typeface nerds, font quality is based on how few of the wrong sort of people use it, rather than any attribute of the font itself. I think Papyrus is a fine looking font, and appropriate for Avatar, and the fact that National Geographic and newsletter writers like it too doesn't diminish that for me.

It's unfortunate for anybody if something they bring in affects their enjoyment of a film, but it's not James Cameron's fault if the Na'vi are the same color as your mother-in-law's bathroom.

Audibly laughed in a muttley knid of way.

ummm. regarding fonts? You guys have anything against Times New Roman?

I'll do that, squirell. But I am not ignorant of typography. I worked at Aldus for 7 years. But I still think criticizing a movie for the font it uses is over the top. It seems to me like people congratulating each other on being the in crowd. I have yet to hear a meaningful argument against it.

It's overused? Times-Roman has been around since 1931.

It's not unreadable, it's not ugly. It may be cutesy, but it fits the movie.

ooh ooh font-battle! :corn:
COMIC SANS FOREVER!!!

Never said you were ignorant, but you are in the 1%. I haven't seen the movie, but if it's lost for someone because of the font, they probably weren't going to be fair minded about it anyway.

And yeah, it is jumping on the "We're so typographically sophisticated blah blah crowd." I wonder how well they'd do with this quiz?
http://fontgame.ilovetypography.com/
my best so far is 23

(Talk about ubiquitous, Garamond goes back to 1530)

To all of the font nerds...this is you:

Helvetica doesn't seem to be an option in Word. I hear death bells.

Ok. Here's hos it seemed to me:

Flint: I'm not going to see Avatar because it's been advertised too much.
Dar: So you realize that means you are still being affected by the advertising
Flint: Well, I wouldn't like it anyway because I can guess how the story will come out.

So what you're saying is that a work of art is guaranteed to be no good if you can tell where the story will go? Novelty is the only attribute that matters to you in a movie?

What I said was that the overly-specific framing of the movies attributes would make viewing the movie itself into an excercise in comparative analysis, thus a completely out-of-the-moment experience for me. It wasn't my decision to be bombarded by a rigid preconception of this movie, I am placing blame where it belongs--the decision to execute an unrelenting media blitz.

The fact that seeing a preview of the plot was such a shocking disappointment was fueled by this same level of over-hyped expectations.

I'm saying that the quality and quantity of media attention created conditions which preclude me being able to give an honest, fair chance to this movie. Again, this wasn't my decision. I am not claiming immunity to the advertsing campaign, I am saying it had consequences they did not intend.

FWIW, not only did the media hype *not* influence me (I would have gone to see a movie by Cameron with this subject matter in any event - I like his work), I would go so far as to say that the trailers, in particular, did not even remotely convey the depth and immersive character of the world that was created.

I had no high expectations for this film, and as a result, became more and more awed and appreciative as the film wore on.

Flint, the media hype is there whether you see the film or not. As with many things, the only way to truly know how you will end up feeling about something is to experience it as it was meant to be experienced. I'm very, very cynical about film in particular as an art form, and for me, this was very nearly the best pure movie entertainment experience I've had.

Too late for that. They've framed how it should be experienced, thus I only have the option to agree or disagree (or get amnesia). I am choosing the third option: neither. Please note that this is not a decision to opt out of a default position, simply a decision not to execute a discretionary action.

We too went to see a 'James Cameron' movie and I for one was not following any preconceived notion or hype. I had no idea what it was about. I don't watch TV much and only listen to music on the PC so I didn't know what to expect and my expectations were not high. I did not find the blue people all that appealing or interesting when I would see advertisements online and would not even bother to look at them. It was a treat for someone who wanted to see it and I am so glad I took the plunge.
:D

{about hype}
I always taught my son to give me a logical reason for wanting something. When he was a kid that is what he did. I don't appreciate doing something just because everyone its the 'in' thing and I do appreciate learning something.

I don't think that happened now as an adult he is pretty smart and savy and told me a little history about James Cameron's work so we went.

Like Elsp. said it is an art form and I had never seen anything like it. I felt like I was at Disney Land. hehe :p

I can see how people might criticize this or that but really it was a marvelous fantasy for me and as well as most everyone else it seems.

I *totally* understand the various negative points being made about "Avatar". Hype. Simplicity of story. Following like sheep into the theater...whatever.

All I can say is that I am not a sheep, I actively avoid hype, and I am a fan of complex storytelling...and this is *still* one of the top two or three big screen entertainments I've ever seen. I didn't want to end up feeling that way, really. I couldn't avoid it. About halfway through, I turned to Selene, pulled her to my face and whispered "This is a kick ass movie!". She just smiled at me and nodded, and we went back to watching. This film isn't about a single thing - story, 3D, CGI, media hype. It is a truly virtual, different, immersive experience.

You may like, or dislike, the movie for any one of a million reasons. But you won't know until you see it.;)

I find it ironic that prejudice is one of the movie's themes, in light of this conversation.

Yes it was a very immersive film!

I barely noticed the time passing.

I didn't think I was going to like the 3d at all. Then you barely noticed it because it became a part of the whole and like you said it wasn't about one little part. Oh and it had a happy ending. I'm a sucker for a happy ending.:)

gimmie the cheese

@ cloud true.

oh and I didn't HAVE to go. He could have gone on his own. I am sooo glad I did go.

Flint is taking a position based on aesthetic/intellectually moral reasons, and I can respect that. The reason I'm arguing the point is because I understand where he's coming from, but this movie is so ridiculously kickass, I feel like, if he saw it, he'd leave feeling dirty, but entertained...kind of like I feel when I watch "True Blood".

I didn't know what that True Blood was. I had to look it up. It's still loading slowly. I do know it is an HBO show/movie.

I guess that is where the good shows are these days. I have com cast but no premium channels. I hate paying for the tv and not watching it.

Oh so it's a vampire show. I don't know. I am kind of a Buffy Kinda girl. Oh and the lost boys that was a great one.

I am into the vampire books occasionally. I was looking up the book Hunger by Whitney Striber. I wonder if it is any good?

Flint

I understand his reasons. I do at times feel I want to do the exact opposite of what the establishment wants me to think/do.

Ok. I'm glad you explained that again, 'cause that's not how I read this:

Tomorrow, I will go see it for a second time. First time was 3D version. Second time will be IMAX version. SonofV saw it once before I did so this will be his third tour of duty on Pandora.

The movie is a great piece of filmmaking. Like all movies, it requires a certain suspension of disbelief to enjoy. If this topic/color/method/font presents an obstacle to that suspension, you're enjoyment will be obstructed proportionally. As for the story, as for the character development, as for the realism, please. I expected to be entertained, and it exceeded my expectations. What expectations to do you have when you go to the movies?

Oh, that's an easy fix. Read the full post, not just the second part. Here: See? Two different points. You are correct in noticing that if you chop the post in half, half of it will be missing.

"they" force fed you an unrelenting media campaign, Flint? maybe it's time to turn off the tv/radio/MSM for a bit. you pride yourself on your ability to think for yourself. Good. Simple negation is not thinking though. It's just the "no game". Surely, as the father of a couple toddlers you recognize it. Getting back in touch with your inner toddler Flint?

I guess I'm not explaining this very well. But anyone else that feels like preaching at me can fuck right off.

voice from on high Flint....FLINT.... Thou shall stand thy ground and not be swayed by scifi geeks! /end voice from on high :haha:

For the record I only saw/heard a handful media pieces/interviews etc. regarding this movie, but considering the extremely little exposure to media outlets I have, I thought this was an outrageous result from such a small sample size. Of note was that everything I heard was harping on the same, very specific message about what was so great about this movie. As I said, it would make watching the movie an exercise in comparing "the message" to what is happening on the screen. Constantly, as every event unfolds in the story I am supposed to be immersed in, I would be thinking "Did they execute that as described? Did they achieve the results they promised they would?" I can't un-do that, I can't un-know the things I have heard. AND, once all of this was irreversibly set in place, I actually saw a preview of the film, and... IT LOOKS DUMB AS HELL AND COMPLETELY UNAPPEALING IN ANY CONCEIVABE WAY. Now you tell me: why in God's name would I think I HAVE TO watch this movie? This is ludicrous and you can all fuck off.

:idea: Peer pressure.





No, wait, I've got it... a large breasted housemate insists. :blush:

We are going to see it in 2 hours. In 3D not IMAX. I have reservations, but I have not been to the theater in over 6 months so we will see. I would rather see Invictus.

Where has the large breasted housemate been lately?

Yabbut it was the second point I had a problem with. Knowing-the-story = movie bad. I don't buy it. But I respect your right to miss a kickass scifi movie. ;)

The world needs curmudgeons too.

Hey! You kids get offa his lawn.

nerdiness/It's "SF" -- NEVER "scifi"/nerdiness

It wasn't so much that the story looked predictable (that's any movie, pretty much) but that the story looked dumb.
When I first announced "I will never see this movie." my wife said I was like a grumpy old man. But after we saw the preview, she agreed with me.

Don't you mean Syfy??? :stickpoke

I'll see your nerdiness and raise you one geekiness. I grew up reading asimov, clarke, and heinlein. I've continued to read scifi and watch scifi throughout my life. In all my conversations with other geeks, sf and scifi have been interchangeable.

syfy is, however, completely hokey.

absolutely not to Flint. and Dar, sorry, but you've been talking to the wrong people. "Scifi" may be semi acceptable now, but it never was in the past to true fans. I believe we've talked about this before.

We may as well use the original term, scientifiction.

Let's see, I hung out with the chess club & science geeks in high school. I took a semester course on science fiction when I was getting my Education degree. I went back to get a computer science degree and now work with reams of computer science geeks. And just now you're getting around to telling me I've been hanging out with the wrong people? :D

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't know who your people are, but my people are not as picky about nomenclature.

from WikiP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction

Maybe I'm older than you? When I was involved in organizing conventions a decade or two ago, this was the feeling.

Edit: Ha! I just looked at your profile, and not only are you older than me (by a smidgeon) but you're a male and for some reason I thought you were a female. You certainly have more geek/nerd credentials than I do, but I was always taught not to use "scifi" when I was actively involved in fandom.

You are both incredibly geeky because you are actually having a discussion about this...:D

<whistles nonchalantly>

Well damn. (Not directed at you Cloud). This is not the first time that mistake has been made.

The difference might be that I've never been to a convention. The convention types might be more avid.

Some are here for the wine, some for the bottle.



I'm here for the fisticuffs.

avid. maybe "rabid" would be a better description!

You're not fooling anybody, missy. :D

Awesome movie, but Horror, not SF nor SciFi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabid

WOW! What a movie. One of the best in Special Effects I have enjoyed since LOTR. A must see for anyone. You have to see this in 3d or IMAX to really appreciate it. Don't miss this one.

Never! And I shall picket out in front of the theater!

so much negativity. :headshake you're going to be reborn as a guinea pig. in South America.

Well, I'm locked in to IMAX King of Prussia http://www.fandango.com/uakingofprus...date=1/16/2010

on Sat Jan 16th for the 2:50 show. We'll be there with friends. If anyone from the Cellar wants to show up, buy your tickets early.

Dude, I'm going to see it in 3D and IMAX. If I don't get sick to my stomach during the flight scenes, I'm going to ask for my money back.;):sick:

Wrong, those people never grow up. :headshake


btw, here's what the theaters look like after they showed avatar.