piercehawkeye45, why should humanity continue to exist.
what is it exactly about us that deserves to continue?
lets pretend that i have a button in front of me that by pressing it, humanity sill cease to exist.
i'd like someone to give me a reason not to press it, for at this time, i have nothing to stop me from pressing it.
can anyone think of anything to tell me to defend our kind?
someone with a purpose, stop me.

If everyone swept their own front porch, the world will be clean. The cessation of humanity starts at home.

UPDATE

The curve for population has changed. It is no longer the doomsday scenario: growth is slowing.

Most European nations do not produce enough offspring to even achieve zero population growth.

It's been unequivocally shown that the best way to slow a country's population growth is to improve their education and economic status. All you have to do is make the world a better place, W.HI.P.

Get to it!

OMG, he's a suicidal Muslim. :eek:

In the grand outlook of things, there is no reason for anything to exist or not to exist. No matter what humans do, the universe and the Earth will move on. But, I enjoy existence and I'm sure most other humans do as well, so the best reason I have is for the enjoyment of our pointless existence. Its not like any other current animal species will enjoy existence more then us.

OK, thats it, i'm pressing the button.
i give you guys 24 hours to give me a reason not to eliminate humanity.

Europe is not really the problem are of our overpopulation.
overpopulation is not the main objective of this discussion.
also, making this world a better place for humans is not the key.... we've been trying to do that since day 1, but our attempts has only made it worse in the long run.
the problem is what we are.
that seems to be what were having a hard time grasping.
we paint all these pretty pictures around us to hide the reality of what we are.
Can anyone without a fairy tale about a pink unicorn bring some light and purpose to our existence?
can anyone defend us with conviction as to stop me from pressing this button?

Hahaha, did you just find out about the nihilistic argument? Life is hard and unforgiving, I doubt anyone here will disagree, but the best way to get past that is attempting to enjoy it. Remember, whether the glass is half full or half empty, it still has the same amount of water in it. So might as well look at it from the half full side.

Well duh, survial and reproduction, like every other plant/animal/insect on the planet. Some are successful, some are not.
We don't need defending, we're doing what every critter is doing, we just do it better.

I have wealth, i enjoy my work very much, i love family members, i'm as content as a man can be....this is not about struggle, or the viewing of a half full/empty glass.
what i'm not content with, is the species that i am.
i can't stand our ignorance and disrespect for life.
i would much rather be a cat(any size) ...a much superior species than our own.... i would reproduce as much as possible if that was the case.

but that is not the case, as i am part of a species, who's actions on this planet place us lower than rats roaches.

:rotflol: Cats? Superior? You are a sick fuck... push the button. :lol2:

Well, you could always become a furry.

Laughing at cats are ya?
They ruled this earth a lot longer than we have, and they certainly did a better job than we have.
Even with smaller domestic cats today, anyone who lives with one could tell you that cats see us as their slaves, unlike the dog who tends to worship us as if we were gods.
so yeah, the cat, clearly superior, on every level....even within our rulership of this earth, during the roman empire, tens of thousands of people would watch the fight between a cat and a human, and cheer as the superior species was victorious

Yeah, yeah, and if cats could drive, they would run over you in a heartbeat, and not give it a thought. Survival and reproduction, Baby, that's the bottom line. Everything else is mental masturbation. :haha:

What Bruce said :)

Ever watch a cat torture a mouse before he kills it? Yeah that's real superior.:rolleyes:

Haven't studied history much? The last century alone has been an incredible boon to humanity. We've advanced by every measure you can name. Go ahead, name some measures.

Naturally occuring immunity to disease (is not one)

strip mining?

Number of W.HI.P.s posting on internet boards.

i was refering to the future ut
these advancments have a cost.

you guys still haven't figured out what we are.
we're food.
those that were meant to feed on us have been long gone, we've simply jumped the fence... like chickens out of the hen.
thats why ya'll can't find a purpose for your existence so you cling to these silly pink unicorn stories.
i bet you all think you're on top of the food chain.
i hate to break it you, even though you've broken the fence and escaped, you are still being fed on by various life forms that are ,without doubt, higher than we are on the food chain.
these higher life forms, given our overpopulation, are our true blessings.

You've got to put down the crack pipe before you can form a coherent thought, man.

We're food.
Except no one eats us anymore.
Except we're arrogant to think no one eats us.
Because things totally do eat us.

This train-of-thought thing isn't working out so well for you.

Its those aliens that we act like don't exist - silly clodfobble

He's channeling L. Ron Hubbard! :eek:

The whole threads premise is hashed this way and it is irksome.

Whip don't you feel that you have elevated your mind to judge,jury and wishful thinking executioner for the entire human race? You have renounced unicorns but not the one stemming from your own mind.You are looking for purpose. A grandiose reason for life on this earth but don't find one. Purpose in life is individual. Many seek to better the world. Many wish to harm it. Aren't you being what you hate? or is this just for fun?

Lack of purpose in ones own life doesn't condemn the whole human race. If your purpose is the look down on your own race then I refer you back to your original post or two.

I think this is just one big joke thread though. I don't think you are serious any more. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Humans as a race are just a biological organism like any other. We're born, we do our thing, then we die. Whether there's a God or not is beside the point. We just ARE. There's no other point to existence.

You'll put yourself into one of those mind loops and short ciruit your brain trying to figure out the meaning of life.

Don't you know many people of far greater intellect than anyone here have been pondering this question for thousands of years??? ;)

…And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth suddenly realised what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.
Sadly, however, before she could get to a phone to tell anyone about it, a terrible stupid catastrophe occurred, and the idea was lost forever.

Oh my, I haven't been paying attention to this thread lately. I had no idea it had become such a riot.

I'm gonna go out on a limb with my kitty here and agree that cats are the superior species.

Think about it. They don't ask stupid questions like why are we here; they don't question the purpose of existance (its to eat cat treats and climb the curtains, stupid). They don't ever say, we live and we die and then what?

Cats keep an eye on the bottom line. :rolleyes:

samiam, cute post
poetic pie
i concur

i think we've had enough ignorance with the whole orthodox, believe and do not question law.
those in power, wether they be religious powers from the past, or goverment powers in the present day, want us to not think.
its within their benefit to keep humanity stupid.
and we are stupid......truly.

yes, and should continue to do so.

everyone i have ever met is racist or biggoted on some level.
the majority of things that have made everyone i've ever met, racist or biggoted to some degree, are actually based on valid observations.
the mistake people make, is seperating themselves from the people that they are racist or biggoted against.
i simply don't exclude myself from the people i'm pointing at.
i'm pointing at humanity, as a whole, without any seperations, and i have the right to do so, being human.
i may sound extreme at times, but maybe my actual view-points are not as much on the edge as i present them.
perhaps the projection to extremes that i point out are to balance the already opposite extreme viewpoints i see in humanity's perceptions.

the term unicorn for god, is meant to show any interactions or rituals that involve pink unicorns as insanity.

death will bring forth truth, no need to go believing various things without true knowledge.
as far as making the world better or harm it, this is part of my debates.

no, not for fun.
where exactly did i say anything about me hating?

sorry to disapoint you.


.


Clodfobble, i guess you're having some trouble grasping the whole food chain thing, thats ok, i'll help you.
above us on the food chain would be viruses, bacteria, who feed off a lot of life forms, including us.
we might consume fungus, but that does not rank us higher on the food chain than the life forms mentioned above.

♪♫♫♪♫ The ciiiircle oooof liiiiiiife! ♪♫♫♪♫

More squares.

It's supposed to be musical notes. Sorry.

whip

Imagine the world without humans. I am sure you have some image in your head. What does it look like?

Where is the purpose in that?

Don't mention man or what he has done to ruin it.
Just the natural world as it would be without man.
What purpose would there be in that?

The purpose of a world without man is the same as the purpose of a world with man.
Both comprise the null set.

i'm obviously not a religious person, but i have studied religion.
while studying christianity, i did picture what heaven would be like....and you've just described my image exactly.

you're speaking like there's some kind of purpose with us in this world.

i'm thinking of the cement prison that we've built on top of the pillow that existed
i'm thinking of the waters and air being clean.
to sum it up for ya, my images of hell, is that which i've witnessed in this life on this earth we fantasies is ours.

You live in Canada right?

oui, however, i have travelled 13 years of my life.

Zalgo said what I was looking for or it is at least it is what I was thinking as well.


There isn't a difference. Except the world is a natural world. Maybe if man lived like the American Indians you would find that respect toward the earth those humans had more redeeming.

I think this bothers you more than you want to admit. I think you want there to be a god and heaven.

No you are. You keep talking about pink unicorns, religion, the church,pressing the button if someone cannot give you one purpose for the existence of humans and I haven't seen one person arguing that point on a religious level.



ok

I don't think anyone would argue with that and so it is the heart of the matter finally? I apologize for my confusion but this has been a meandering course of contradictions.

Man's purpose then should be proactive if something about the world is wrong. Man's purpose is always try to improve,learn and become a contributing member for the good of the world in which they live.

Again why not join Greenpeace or some organization like it. There are many that support the natural world.

Man's purpose is to do good in the world before one takes his last breath. That brings meaning to it. Everyone's purpose is different.

American Indians still destroyed the environment, there is really nothing anyone can do to avoid it. Hell, even other animals do it to a point. Cows will eat all the grass in a particular field and will have to move on to another. Humans do the same but just on a much larger scale.

Its just that problems occur when a population stops being self-sustainable.

All this crap about purpose is extremely beside the point. As the Buddha said, we all suffer. We suffer because of our desires. Always we are pulling things toward us or pushing them away. All we have of life is this present moment. The past is gone and the future never comes because its always just today. Treat other beings (especially cats) with kindness and strive to do right action and calm the mind. That's it. No pink unicorns needed. You argue about purposes while your life passes you by.

My point pierce was they originally tried to live in 'harmony' with the land. Nothing is absolute.

Which just reminded me of 'green' technology which attempts to make society become responsible for the earth.

lol sam. ( the part about cats )

That is more of a stereotype then anything. Every culture destroys it environment. It is true that some native populations were much more respectful to the environment then most "Old World" populations, but I think a lot of "natives living in harmony with the Earth" stuff is highly romanticized, especially when you generalize the entire group of American Indians.

Also, my point is not to be picky but to show that populations that live in harmony with the Earth are extremely rare and romanticized. It is also something that would be impossible for a non-hunter gatherer society to achieve. That is why I would stress sustainability over anything.

Wrong, I will. The reason for all that concrete, is people were tired of wallowing in the mud, you describe an a "pillow".
You wax poetic about unfettered nature, like the world without people would be a giant Maxfield Parrish painting. Bullshit, go camping in the rain.:eyebrow:

What I think this has been, is an exorcise in mongoso Ego. Really, I'm so damn smart that I know everyone else in the world, that's right, everyone...the entire human race is fucking this place up. It would be better if they were all just gone.

Sure, we will all just drop dead, just for you.

I said nothing was absolute. They lived sustainably.It's not romanced fiction. Yes you are being picky:p

You crack me up.

Your post reminded me of one the most interesting experiences camping in the rain I had. I grew up camping so that wasn't the interesting part it was when a few years ago I went camping with blind kids. It rained the whole time and I had to show a blind girl how to take a pee in the rain soaked forest who never had to squat before. I eventually found felled trees which made kind of a seat.
Yes there is a lot to be said for modern amenities.

This is why I love men. Blunt and shooting from the hip.

The ecology course I took in college over 20 years ago put that myth to rest. The main reason they were not as bad to the environment as we are is that their numbers were smaller.

Thomas Morton, Description of the Indians in New England (1637)
So the Indians of New England burned up the land they were in such harmony with because it made it easier to travel and hunt. They burned off nuisance vegetation simply for convenience. All the small animals that lived in that underbrush were denied their habitat so that more light would get into the woods to support larger game and the hunting of that game. They had very small numbers and still had a HUGE impact on their environment.

Columbus just followed the smoke. :haha:

...and found pit bar-b-que?

Of course. They would have to have a pit to throw all the charred animals of the underbrush into

And that, folks, is the meaning of life. We all end up as crispy critters one way or the other.

all these seperations.
next time you hear or say the words, nigger, kike, spick, muslim, cracker, dago, christian, amercian, jew, limey, camel jockey, faggot, coon, crack head, cock sucker, dyke, porch monkey, terrorist, junkie, etc etc, just substitute the word with human.

What, you mean we're not one big happy family? I'm shocked.
Not like a dog, who can walk into any kennel in the world without trouble.
Or horse, that can join any herd in the world, peacefully.
Or Lion, that can join any pride in the world, and be welcomed.
Or bee, that can just stop in any hive, while on vacation.
Or fish, that can hitch a ride with any school going his way.:rolleyes:

i'm pointing out that i'm not the only pointing at humanity.
i'm saying that you point at the faggots, niggers, jews, muslims etc, you are also pointing at humanity.
i've seen no valid arguments from any of you as to defend humanity, to be honest, i didn't expect anyone to find any, as none really exist, other than maybe that we are at an infant state.
who knows what potential we actually have.
one could hope that we are very far from it.

I don't think any of us have been especially trying to defend humanity. Most people just get through life as best they can. Its anybody's guess if we can evolve further or go extinct first. Look at the trilobite. It was around far longer than man has dreamed of being and then one day - blink! It was gone. I'm not very sanguine about our chances. Not really.

Defend the human race for not being some comic book utopian image, somebody thinks it should be? Nope. :headshake
Won't defend it for not developing gills, either.

Whip, what's "the point" of any species on this planet? Why is any other being's existence more important or meaningful than ours? Why do you have to push the button so all of the cats and bacteria can live in peace and harmony? Who's to say another species won't evolve and do all of the effed up stuff to the planet that we've been doing?

I appreciate pondering the what ifs, but heck, you're stuck here for now brother, so you might as well enjoy the ride.

We are very clever apes with very clever brains, opposable thumbs and the ability to conceive of different levels of social identity (that last is pretty much what distinguished us from neanderthals and the most likely reason we thrived and they did not). If any other creature had evolved with our particular skill-set, there is no reason I can think to suggest as to why they would have done any less damage.

Species die out because of the damage we've done. They also die out for a whole host of other reasons. Catastrophic events cripple the survival chances of some, even as they enable another to gain a surer footing. The only difference between an Earth on which humans exist and an Earth on which we have died out, is that there could be no human witness to the latter. The Earth will take time and recover from our technological onslaught. And in the grand sweeping scale of the universe, the damage we did would feature as a blip. Another blip along with all the rest of the blips.

To suggest that we somehow deserve to die off, or that the earth would be better off if we did, is like saying the earth would have been better off without the ice of the ice age. We're here, we are what we are. We may change and find a way to live beyond the wildest dreams of anyone here. Or we may devastate the Earth in ways that make our survival as a species impossible. It only matters in the short term.

I get the sense of frustration when species die out because we've been tramping about the ecosystem in our size nine boots. I get the sense of futility when survival can be so ugly, and come at such a price. But these are temporary and human-centric concerns in and of themselves. You seem to be reaching for a big answer. But the further out you go the less relevant that answer is.

Came here to say this.

Humanity
 

This thread and section has stayed stagnant for so long I went and found a poem about humanity. I think this poet is great. He has such a grasp of the heaven beside us and hell within. (part song line from AIC.)




2 Centimeters of Brain





As much as it could stupendously perceive; it had the
power to brutally devastate,

As much as it could magnanimously harbor; it had the
power to corrupt the most sagacious of truth,

As much as it could devotionally dedicate; it had the
power to conceive the most unprecedentedly lecherous
existing on this planet,

As much as it could intriguingly fantasize; it had the
power to parasitically drain out every iota of
glorious memory,

As much as it could magically evolve; it had the power
to swipe traces of blissful civilization; in
lightening fractions of seconds,

As much as it could fantastically tantalize; it had
the power to disastrously famish the most invincible;
for centuries immemorial,

As much as it could unfathomably grasp; it had the
power to diabolically relinquish; within a single wink
of an eye,

As much as it could reside in perpetual realms of
solitude; it had the power to fulminate more
treacherously than infinite volcano’s trapped beneath
the earth,

As much as it could disseminate the fragrance of
philanthropic mankind; it had the power to
diabolically crush the immaculately impeccable in the
swirl of its menacing manipulation,

As much as it could majestically accomplish; it had
the power to rampantly deteriorate well beneath the
rudiments of its roots,

As much as it could formidably heal; it had the power
to gruesomely exacerbate the tiniest of wounds; beyond
the corridors of infinite infinity,

As much as it could blossom into an island of
enchanting paradise; it had the power to insidiously
melt; transcending over boundaries of the most
obsolete oblivion,

As much as it could divinely meditate; it had the
power to indefatigably swim in torrential sea deluged
with preposterously ominous sharks,

As much as it could overwhelmingly pacify; it had the
power to trigger malicious fireballs of
discrimination; in religions bonding as united on this
earth,

As much as it could bask in the grandiloquent
splendor; it had the power to recede immortally into
its grave; even though it was animatedly alive,

As much as it could aristocratically relax; it had the
power to tumultuously inundate benevolent goodness;
with insane mad,

As much as it could ravishingly romance; it had the
power to sow the seeds of despairing betrayal; in
every heart it met,

As much as it could unbelievably dream; it had the
power to drown in cloudbursts of cacophonic
manipulation,

As much as it could unsurpassably exist; it had the
power to vanish like pathetic devil; before even the
winds could transgress in azure sky,

And as much as I called it my mind; believe me it had
the ubiquitous power to be anybody’s 2 centimeters of
brain; entrenched well within the skull and shivering
inside….

by nikhil parekh.