At what point was he successful? He had the possession in his hands, then got his head blown off? What's the statute of limitations on success?

He was successful in doing what he set out to do.
Then he gets his head blown off, or other people find out and refuse to associate with him, or what he took has a curse on it, etc.

That is why henry quirk's simple views are invalid. Nothing is that simple, there are always repercussions.

I see your point.

But say henry quirk steals a pack of gum from joe's desk. Joe had forgotten he had that pack of gum; he never notices. henry quirk chews the gum, doesn't get any kind of strange illness, the wrappers don't clog up the garbage system, the gum biodegrades either inside or outside henry quirk...the world goes on and henry quirk dies of lyme disease related not to gum but to a camping trip he had gone on.

Short of eternal hellfire, there are no repercussions.

;)

Until his apparent success spurs him to bigger and better crimes for which he pays dearly.

or

Until he brags of his success to his wife during pillow talk and she refuses to ever have sex with him again.

lol

"You LIED to me. You said you bought that gum with your own money. I can never trust you again. "

I hear jets.

So there isn't any "free-gum" here?

"henry quirk is dead and Joe is in jail"

a false assumption...two of them, actually

first: i may not die...in fact: if i'm cunning enough, no one may die

two: assuming joe knocks me off, AND is cunning about it, my body may never be discovered


"There are always repercussions"

sure

the job of the wise criminal is to anticipate and minimize the repercussions


"Until his apparent success spurs him to bigger and better crimes for which he pays dearly"

a false assumption...the wise man possesses himself...that is: he possess the appetite, not the other way around


"henry quirk's simple views are invalid"

open your pollyanna eyes and LOOK at the world...what i describe up-thread is the way it works...always has, always will

you can dress it up anyway you like: the essential transaction is prey versus predator

choose your poison...

"there are different kinds of agency. Political (or historical) agency is not always open to everyone"

yes: but i'm talking about a very specific, and real, thing when i refer to 'agency'

that is: agency = the agent

the capacity for self-deliberation, self-determination, choice is integral to the individual...in fact: that capacity is synonymous with the individual

political/historical agency is another topic completely, one in keeping with that great, sometimes useful, fiction 'liberty/freedom'...

No. You're trying to distill life to elements. Life will always be compounds.

"You're trying to distill life to elements"

not at all!

my comments are meant to clarify, not reduce

murder, theft, propaganda, stupification.

"What do you hear when people say freedom?"

W.HI.P wrote: murder, theft, propaganda, stupification.

me: care to expand on that?

a non police state

1776

I can go to any church I want or not.

this thread asks a specific question.
its asking me what i hear when when people say freedom.
the first thing that comes to my mind when i hear the word freedom is the usa.
first thing that pops to my mind when mentioning the usa is murder.
the purpose of murder being theft.
propaganda is whats being pumped out of the media to cover up this theft and murder
stupification is the result of the system which is structured in a way to keep the masses stupid and powerless.

its a matter of control and power, not freedom.

Uh, long winter up there WHIP? :haha:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_i...#United_States

I wonder why you think murder when the USA is mentioned? Personally, I think murder and theft more when when I hear Colombia, or South Africa. I don't generally think "Ahh, freedom!"

It's all the hobo-killin' what makes him mad.

"It's all the hobo-killin' what makes him mad."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

let me get this right...

'usa' leads to 'murder' leads to 'theft' leads to 'propaganda' leads to
'stupification' leads to 'stupid and powerless masses'

...this is the formula, yes?

i'm sure my sequencing is wrong...doesn't matter...no matter how the above is arranged, it's all bullshit...cog philosophy/politics conduited from those in the would-be politburo to folks who kinda think communitarianism is -- at best -- naive, and -- at worst -- criminal

of course, whip, you can do as you like with your life, time, and resources...orchestrate revolution, if that's what blows your hair back

me: i decline to participate


"its a matter of control and power, not freedom."

on this we agree...'freedom' is a fictional carrot dangled by another

self-possession, on the other hand, is reality

I don't hear "freedom" come up in a conversation too often. When it does come up it is generally someone who wants to do whatever the hell they feel like.

lol
i'm refering to the murder of innocent people away from the usa.
the theft being the cause of the usa sending their military overseas.
i'm refering to the brainwashing of the media that has you all stupified as to whats really going on.

the reason why the word freedom makes me think of these things is because freedom is the word thats used as an excuse for this murder and theft to occur.

this thread asks me to speak my mind.
i'm doing so as honestly as possible.
if you're living in the states and feel some sort of security by this word freedom, than all the power to ya.
keep in mind though, that the only real reason you feel free is cause you're comparing where you live to a third world country.
horseshit, when compared to bullshit may seem like something superior, but nothing changes the fact that its shit.

But our shit and your shit is better than their shit. That's why so many want to leave their shit and come to our shit or your shit. Preferably our shit 'cause your shit is too cold.

thats pretty good bruce.

lets take a few steps back and take a close look at what all this hate is really about.

you have blacks hating whites, and whites hating blacks.
christians hating muslims, and muslims hating christians.
you've got jews hating gentiles, gentiles hating jews
irish hating english, english hating irish.
greeks hating turks, turks hating greeks.

and all those things that they're all saying about each other, pointing.
what they're all talking about is one thing....
all the above are people.
the problem here is not the jew, muslim black or white, greek english, irish or turkish.

its our species...we're all these things we hate so much

lets take an even closer look in the mirror.

we kill, torture or imprison all life, including our own.
it is, without doubt, our nature to do so.
we do so for greed, sport.
we have no respect for any life on this planet, including our own.
face it, we are the scum of the earth.

thread/Fookin' A, W.HI.P got shit goin on outside of the sports arena./pause

"we are the scum of the earth"

speak for yourself, and only for yourself

i applaud, as you say, you speaking your mind 'as honestly as possible'

this is a good thing

i too simply speak my mind as honestly as possible

so: when i say you are as hobbled, reactionary, and stupefied as those you decry, you'll take my comment within the context of this thread, and my previous comments in this thread...that is: as an honest expression of opinion

all this...

"we kill, torture or imprison all life, including our own.
it is, without doubt, our nature to do so.
we do so for greed, sport.
we have no respect for any life on this planet, including our own.
face it, we are the scum of the earth"

...which seems to be a summation of your view, is nothing less or more than mickey mouse, high school, pedestrian, bullshit

whip, are you presently torturing or imprisoning anyone?

whip, are you currently tortured or imprisoned by anyone?

whip, are you wholly without respect for any-one or -thing?

whip, if YOU are not tortured, imprisoned, or, are not torturing or imprisoning anyone, then your little coggish diatribe is meaningless

whip, if YOU can muster even one little erg of respect for some-one or -thing, then your little coggish display is for shit.

sure: lots of folks 'kill, torture or imprison' for all kinds of reasons, but not ALL of us do

living is way more colorful and complex than you seem to think

of course: as i said before, you can do as you like with your life, time, and resources...if this means wallowing in a teen's nihilism, then get to it

again: i decline to participate... --henry

what i find most deplorable about the simplicities of folks like whip: such simplicities are based on generalizations of behavior, medians of behavior, which tend toward fictionalizations of behavior, which tend toward ignoring the extraordinary in favor of the ordinary

that is: even if 99 assholes shit on the floor, it's criminal to ignore the 1 person who uses the toilet

*shrug*

we determine the nature of the wolf by observing the wolf.
the actions of the wolf determine the wolf's nature.
basically, wolves tend to sink their teeth into the sheeps neck and drinks its blood. thats how it feeds.
humans consume millions of bird fetus's a day.
you could easily say that bird fetus's[eggs] is on our species menu.

now, should there be a wolf in the pack who choses not to sink its teeth into the sheeps neck as to drink its blood... it does not make drinking blood from a sheeps neck any less the nature of the wolf.

should there be a human who chooses not to eat a bird fetus, it does not remove bird fetus's as one of our species main courses.

we've been watching the wolf for quite some time, we kinda have a general idea what the wolf's nature is.
how much do we know about human nature?

we've always killed, we will always kill.
war always was and always will be.

by stepping back and watching our species, we can determine, by the actions of this species throughout time, that we are the crudest thing on this planet.
not that this planet is not crude by nature, but we certainly do take it a step further.

religion intervines here trying to make you believe that you're some kind, gentle, loving species.
how could someone believe in something like that when reality proves otherwise.

you think we own this planet?
cause we don't.
we are without doubt, the earths greatest enemy.

That's why she's in the nuthouse.....

Without us, what purpose does the Earth serve?

Do you place inherent value in dirt? We are not getting rid of that any time soon.

Do you place inherent value in plants? We are not getting rid of it all, and cultivating much in its place.

Do you place inherent value in animals other than humans? We are not getting rid of them all, and cultivating much that would not normally survive.

The way I see it, humans are the end-all-be-all of reality. Without us there is no reason to be concerned about the world. As for your moral issues with humanity... morality is not in keeping with the nature of humanity, it is true. It never is, and never will be. Morality is a goal that we work toward; we are always trying to better ourselves, and history records that we are quite good at it. We see how we can become better and set a standard to strive for, that is morality. Claiming that we are horrible because we cannot live up to a standard which keeps being increased as we improve is folly.

We also cycle. If we get too destructive with our environment or each other, we just end up winnowing our numbers down and starting over again. We rebound and so does the earth and its other inhabitants. At least maybe. :P

murder, theft, rape, don't make us bad in my eyes, they make us human.
its those who seperate themselves from the rest of humanity, pointing at some the others with terrible accusations that i'm looking at.

everytime you point at someone else, you're pointing at yourself.
...of course religion makes you feel better with the idea that they're gonna pay in hell, while you're on your way to heaven.
reality says that its all right here and now.

you have this great idea of your kind phaege.
without us, no, the majority of problems that concern the earth would not exist.
we are the earths plague.

i'm sure the ant see's the ant as the center of the universe as well.
i don't see a greater value in the human... you're just as small

That's the difference between life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" vs "peace, order and good government". ;)

It depends. If someone says "Freedom" in the woods and there's nobody else around, does it make a difference?

You are the crown of creation.

No, I am the crown of creation. Puh.

Will the real crown of creation please stand up?

"we determine the nature of the wolf by observing the wolf. the actions of the wolf determine the wolf's nature."

so, in your view: the wolf (a kind of bio-automaton…determined and generic) is the equivalent of a self-aware, self-determining, unique, human individual

if this is the foundation of your thinking, then it's no wonder you're on the wrong track


"we are the crudest thing on this planet."

if you judge humanity by the single measure of 'we've always killed, we will always kill', then we're not better or worse than any other animal

i prefer to judge humanity by the actions of the individuals who comprise humanity, and i prefer to judge humanity not only by way of the profane but also the holy

you, my dear whip, are a cog (a knucklehead mcspazatron)...does this mean all humans are cogs?

of course not: only the willfully blind, stupid, and simple are cogs

*shrug*

Yes, Wolf is "a self-aware, self-determining, unique, human individual"... more so than most. :haha:

quirky, you're going to argue on the value of human life?

well lets see what humans have done on this planet vs all other life.

humans have poisoned the waters.
we've poluted the air.
we've raped the earth.

if in your mind, sefl awareness seperates us from the rest of life, then where is our will to survive?
we can be as self destructive as we want, its just that we're taking all other life with us.

what makes you so proud to be human?
you see yourself as superior to all other life, your actions prove the opposite.
self awareness hasn't served us that well.
you're in prison, and you call yourself free.

i see humanity as being at a pre-infant state.
which is the only excuse that could be made for our actions as a whole.

now you can point all you want bird fetus gobbler, but you're only pointing at yourself.

"quirky, you're going to argue on the value of human life?"

no

i'm arguing the value of the human individual, the single one, the idiosyncrat, the philosophical ego


"well lets see what humans have done on this planet vs all other life"

a pointless comparison: no other animal on this benighted globe, no matter how extraordinary it may be, does what any average human does or can do

find me a non-human to debate with and your view will hold water more cleanly

'till you can find me a non-human debate partner: your position, as stated, is simplistic, one-dimensional, pedestrian, and unoriginal

the fact that we -- you and me -- can have this back 'n forth dickering says an awful lot about the capacities and capabilities of the human individual, as individual, and in alignment with other individuals

koko ain't got nuthin' on me (or you, for that matter)


"humans have poisoned the waters."

and all manner of life still thrives in ocean, sea, and river


"we've poluted the air."

still seems breathable to me and to most of the life i spy 'round me


"we've raped the earth."

oh please: there's not a one of us with a cock big enough to accomplish that!

so (melo)dramatic of you, whip...


"where is our will to survive?"

i can't, and won't speak, for the fictional 'will' of the fictional 'collective'

however: speaking for myself, i intend on lingering 'round for another 40 years or so

you?


"we're taking all other life with us"

so what?

yeah: we kill things, we eat things, we waste things....so what?


"what makes you so proud to be human?"

not a question of pride in the species...the species i'm a party to is incidental...i do, however, take a great deal of pleasure in being 'me'

does that count for anything?


"you see yourself as superior to all other life"

certainly seems that way to me

i eat cows, pigs, chickens, sheep, deer, etc

some of these i kill myself...some i buy from the market...in either case: 'i' eat 'them', not the other way around

i certainly see myself as superior to YOU...your head is full of coggish bullshit, your eyes dimmed by (dead) rose-color


"your actions prove the opposite"

so: what actions are those?


"you're in prison, and you call yourself free"

nope...i say i self-possess; 'freedom' has nothing to do with anything


"i see humanity as being at a pre-infant state."

i see 'humanity' (mostly comprised of wingnuts) as obstacle


"now you can point all you want bird fetus gobbler, but you're only pointing at yourself"

in my experience: self-loathing is foundational for cogs like you

as the magic jew said: go pull the fucking log outta yer own eye, then you can tell yer neighbor about the splinter in his... --henry

My shit meter overfloweth.

"My shit meter overfloweth"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Henry, the views you espouse regarding human superiority make me feel sick. I'm not saying that I totally agree with WHIP. However, your complete disregard for all other life seems to support WHIP's view on human nature far more that it supports your own.

Henry, the views you espouse regarding human superiority make me feel sick.

(((good)))

(((the truth hurts...it should hurt...it should make you sick)))

(((the notion that you -- a single human individual -- have more value than all the chickens, cows, pigs, deer, geese, etc. put together should scare the bejeezus out of you)))

(((being a human individual is an awe-full responsibility)))

(((that so many abdicate that responsibility by way of adopting bullshit, namby-pamby, hippyisms, or by way of consistent poor choices, is a fucking shame...but -- really -- not my god damned problem)))

(((so: abcde, as i told the whip, you should feel absolutely free to discharge yourself on whatever foolishness you like...if elevating mere animals to the status of human is your bag, then have at it)))

(((if denigrating yourself, making yourself 'mere animal', is your thing, then -- again -- have at it)))

(((i'm very tolerant of all manner of insanities and inanities...i simply refuse to participate in them)))


...your complete disregard for all other life seems to support WHIP's view on human nature far more that it supports your own.

(((i don't disregard 'all other life'...i simply put 'all other life' into its proper place in the great, natural, hierarchy)))

(((again: find me a non-human debate partner and i'll be glad to reassess the circumstance and adjust my view...)))

Henry, you damm non-conformist. :lol:

"Henry, you damm non-conformist"
 

nah

non-conformity is too much work

yo wanna talk about freedom?

this song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01fj9Niso_g

was silenced in the usa, cause it had the word 'revolution' in its title.
aimee allen was quieted over the next five years from the goverment via her record label/contract.
the silence of this cool artist is now ending as her contract expires and she's releasing her new album.
thank ron paul for being able to watch the video above which caused her silence. [ron paul clips have been added to the original video.

It's always amazing, what different kinds of bullshit people develop.

Allmusic.com lists 1482 songs merely titled "Revolution".

this song is actually good, and had started to make some noise and caused some reaction in people that they didn't like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVoxPe3TCrY

That's some really remarkable bullshit. The interviewer is apparently a premier 9/11 "truther", so you know the bullshit is absolutely top-notch compost.

"caused some reaction in people that they didn't like" is a great bullshit sentence construction too. The best bullshit is always non-specific so that it can't actually, you know, be verified in any way.

the iraq war, had nothing to do with 9/11 is what that message is about.

so you agree with them silencing her?

is that what freedom of speech is all about?

i couldn't give a fuck about the poitical message.
i was disturbed by the fact that i didn't own the song.
i couldn't get a hold of the album.
i couldn't even hear the song online until she hooked up with ron paul.

i like aimee, i like the song.

so you agree with them silencing her

This is how bullshit is reinforced in echo chambers. It doesn't really work so well here.

The CIA did not make a call to Elektra Records to complain about a message board somewhere. That's simply bullshit, either made up of whole cloth or formulated out of bizarre rumor or outright lies.

Elektra Records, faced with an artist that might become popular for any reason at all, would not squelch them on any basis. Money is their god and their empire is crumbling. Making sure that artists do not sell is not in their operational way of thinking.

Much more likely is that she was sold on the basis of being hot, which everybody knows how to sell, and then proceeded to become political, which nobody in the business knows how to sell. Maybe somebody had to explain to her that they were not going to sell her, which is what happens to 90% of artists signed to labels.

I wonder how they had time to pressure the label and radio when they were so busy ensuring Sheffield Wednesday and Sheffield United would never ever play in the same division again?:rolleyes:

whip wrote: "aimee allen was quieted over the next five years from the goverment via her record label/contract"

from wikipedia: "She was previously signed to Elektra Records and her album I'd Start a Revolution If I Could Get Up In the Morning, featuring tracks produced by Mark Ronson and Don Gilmore, was never released due to a corporate merger"

my comment: i think this has less to do with 'freedom' (that great, useful, fiction) and more to do with a lack of intelligence and insight on the part of a pop singer who apparently can't tell a 'good' contract from a 'bad' one

boo hoo.... --henry

based on the fact that we are the scum of the earth.
it would be for the good of all, if there was species that existed that we couldn't conquer, that fed on us.
another species that didn't feed on us, but hunted us.... for sport.
that would bring us the balance we lack.

Take your medication WHIP, those voices seem to be getting too loud again.

medication?
wtf are you on about lookout?
are you having a hard time looking in the mirror?

Leave witty comments to the professionals WHIP, you aren't suited for it.

if i could go back in time, there are two places in time that i would go first.
the first place i'd go, is to the roman empire, where it was lions vs humans and tens of thousands of people watched as the superior cat fought to victory.
i would really enjoy that.