Our whole universe was in a hot dense state,
Then nearly fourteen billion years ago expansion started. Wait...
The Earth began to cool,
The autotrophs began to drool,
Neanderthals developed tools,
We built a wall (we built the pyramids),
Math, science, history, unraveling the mysteries,
That all started with the big bang!

Theme from Big Bang Theory by The Barenaked Ladies

;)

That there is Hall of Fame material.

And this part should go into the tagline thread -
The Cellar: you will not leave here (or stay here) unchanged.

I know what you are trying to say, and agree to a point, but with the Hubble telescope and with better and better telescopes, we can see farther and farther into the distance. Since light takes time to travel, the farther into the distance we can see, the farther into the past we are looking.

According to your definition of the word "Christian." According to their definition, they might be just fine.

The speed of light is not constant. A Light year is a measure of distance based on a constant, not time.

Well, I can agree with that. I would say for purposes of this discussion, that my definition of Christian is one that believes that the Bible is true and is the word of God, and that Jesus is the ultimate blood sacrifice for every person's sin. (Whereas a Jewish person doesn't necessarily follow the last part, they generally agree on the first part.)

:)

No, the amino acids and lots of time part is.

Evolution is a very well documented theory (scientific theory, not everyday use of theory) and has much evidence to back it up with. It isn't just a shot in the dark, there are reasons for theory.

The Bible is in two parts. The Old Testament is God's covenant with the Jews. The failure of that covenant led to the New Testament, God's covenant with Christians, which is ongoing. It's quite easy, and I think reasonable, to be a Christian and disregard the Old Testament.

I've wondered about that. The farther we can see, the more we see of the first ejecta from the "Big Bang", but when we do it'll be billions of years old. Do they think it will be unchanged it that interim? Hey, it could have grown a beard by now.

Wow, long time no post! Welcome back! Start a thread to update us on your doings!

**cuddle Bruce**

I disagree. If you take the Old Testament out of the equation, there is no need for salvation through the cross, and Jesus' sacrifice is meaningless. The Old Testament is a history of how it got to that point. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. Or something like that.

**tickle Wolf**

I will, some time today. :blush:

I disagree, and there are alot of reasons (scientific ones), but I don't have the time or energy to go into it (again).

The bottom line is, there is nothing that proves it per the scientific method, and therefore it can't be proven. Just like Creationism.

The Old Testament is a history of how it got to that point, but Jesus' sacrifice canceled the Old Testament. Jesus said forget that eye for an eye shit, and forget the ten commandments, now there is one commandment, love thy neighbor as thy self. New covenant, new deal, new rules, making the Old Testament simply a Jewish history book.

I am one of those who believe in evolution, God, and Jesus.

The Bible is not one book. It is a collection of books covering a long time period. I don't have any problem with some of the older stuff being less reliable. Not only is it older, but it has been edited and modified (sometimes more than once). I also don't have problems with the "inconsistencies" people point out in the bible -- Mrs. dar and I often have different recollections of things that occurred just a couple of years ago.

I find the Bible more useful and more meaningful, not less, for knowing that it is not a literal history.

BTW, when I went back to get my CS degree, I went to Seattle Pacific U. -- a Methodist college. You were required to take a bible course to graduate. I took the old testament course. And "useful for instruction" but "not a literal history" is how they teach it.

The Old Testament is fascinating when read as an ancient chronicle. We'd know so much less about ancient Mesopotamia without it.

The scientific method disproves challenges. Evolution is one of the most challenged theories, and it has withstood all challenges. It is science.

Creationism is an assertion that makes no testable predictions, and therefore cannot be challenged. Particular stories from the Bible can be disproven, such as Noah's Ark, but when there is magic involved a believer can always invoke it. It is not science.

The update thread is in the relationships section. :)

But there is a big difference. Creationism, at least the version in The Bible, has massive amounts of evidence that proves it wrong. None exist with creationism.

Also....

Evolution can be proven wrong. God cannot.