Not pretending anything, if you read my post above yours it can have multiple uses. Nothing disingenuous about that, is there? Exactly what is it you have against her protecting her investment in this business from thieves both inside and/or outside the company?

Classic, let's agree to disagree. I know I would find it difficult to be a customer in such an establishment. You would feel safer, it seems.
There can be no meeting of the minds here.

Individuals may prefer a business environment with no CCTVs. Businesses may prefer one where every action and transaction of employees is monitored and filmed. All we really know is that if there was no video surveillance many of the programs on Fox and Spike would be canceled due to lack of new material.

I like the kick her in the cunt idea. go for that.

Pie - I'm willing to agree to disagree - Lord knows it wouldn't be the first time, but please let me ask you this. Do you go to a bank or a 7-11 or any other convenience store, a department store, a Home Depot or Lowe's, a supermarket of virtually any kind or ever use an ATM? If so, I really do not understand the difference. All of the aforementioned have cctv systems in place.

I am trying to see your point here and for whatever reason - perhaps I'm just that dense - I'm not getting it. What exactly is the negative to Ducks protecting her interests and possibly her employees from theft, false accusation via accident or any other malicious intent from internal or external individuals? This could simply be viewed as prevention for a situation much like that which has already occurred.

If I were in Duck's position, this recent situation would have been a bit of a wake up call I suspect. The simple fact is, that there are dishonest people all over the place. Sure there are plenty more honest people, but when it all comes down to it, we've probably all been caught out by someone we trusted at some stage in our lives.

As a business owner, she can't claim her (larger) losses on tax or insurance if she has no evidence that her losses weren't soley out of her control. Having a security camera on the till in future is a wise investment and I'd recommend it. Along with detering staff from putting sticky fingers in the till, it might just deter a real live robbery.

There's also the chance that one's spouse is cheating, so do you have video cameras hidden in your bedroom?

Well, sometimes there's a camera in the room...but it's not hidden. ;)

I for one cannot wait until Nov 4th, so that everyfuckingthing, including theft mitigation options in another fucking country will no longer have to be argued from a liberal/conservative perspective. Jesus fucking christ on a popcicle stick.

What makes you think there'll be any difference in the way things are discussed on the cellar.org after the 4th of Nov? Do you really think it'll make much difference regardless of who wins?

*sigh* its not getting any better...I'm tempted to sack them all and start again.

We are having a meeting tonite to talk about things that are shitting everybody.

Re: the camera, the girls are *really* edgy at the moment, and feeling particularly hen picked, which wont be any better after tonite....apparently the time from 9-10 am is for breakfast that you didnt have at home and to apply your make-up :rolleyes: so I wont be doing anything with it at this stage.

Horse dude and I can probably make use of it

This may have been a symptom of a larger problem. Perhaps a resh start may be a good idea. I wish you well either way.

Sack 'em all, turn the place into a brothel, and rehire them at a 20% pay cut.
They've been screwing you, time they did some screwing FOR you.

That's why I haven't been responding full-out to cm, for what it's worth.I'm fed up with the talking-head mentality too.
CM's on my ignore list, mmm'kay?

lots of cunts to kick -lots of shoes to replace....

Pie, I get where you are coming from. In a small community, external watchdogs arent normally needed to monitor malfeasance because the group will tend to police itself. And I think this is what occured in Ducks situation. Now that the problem is gone (the thief left), I would think that Duck could put the camera away until she needs it again.

Be the change you want to see in the world - Gandhi

Mmmkay - Just another brick in the wall.

Are there customers waiting while this is going on?

They tend to not book clients until 10...sneaky huh?

Then I would tend not to pay them until 10....

I'm with Monster. If they're not booking clients til ten but are on the PAYROLL before that, change the payroll! The girls shouldn't get paid for eating and doing makeup and the like at work... work is for work. HOME is for the breakfast thing. If you don't have time to eat/makeup/whatever before you leave for work, get your lazy ass out of bed half an hour earlier and MAKE the time... -trails off grumbling-

I work at home, so it's always time to eat.

Now, you know it has nothing to do with the impossibility of my spouse cheating... And I really wish you'd stop telling people the secrets to my financial success. Those tapes are valuable, I tell you! Valuable!! :thepain:

Actually I think the eating & make-up thing is give & take.
I've certainly been known to use salaried time in the Cellar, and when Dylan went missing I ran off colour copies of Cat Missing posters and fliers.

Okay, I actually do a fair amount for the company outside of working hours - not least shopping and going to the bank, which previous and current employees charge travel expenses for and I do shanks pony.

But surely every job has its perks and benefits.
If you explain to the staff that you are not "spying" on them, cameras are only used to check back in case of missing money, but they should remember that dossing about before 10.00 is only winked at by management, I'm sure everything will be fine.

Even without a camera, it might be worth reminding them that their pre-10.00 primping is at management discretion.

I think its perfectly reasonable to keep the camera in place:
1) its already there
2) she will have to hire new people, good to be able to have the film in case anything pops up
3) customers could possible steal from the register too
4) crazy person comes in to shoot up the place/steal
I'm sure there are more reasons, but if you wait until there is another problem to re-implement the safety measures then the problem is probably harder to handle or larger than if it could have been caught/dealt with right away. Instead you have to re-do everything first. Sounds like now is a great time to make some positive changes for your business. Your employees are employees, not friends, they need to understand you're there to make a living and their actions are very important to the well-being of your company. They are expected to act like professionals, and you will treat them well with benefits, better pay ect as the business grows. That will create loyalty and good moral, a security system won't be a hassle if they understand that.

very well put MTP - except the camera isn't there yet. I was suggesting she have one installed for all the reasons you so aptly stated though.