What she said.
As far as I can tell in this thread none of us non-US citizens have objected to the American flavour of this board, or said we feel excluded. It is simply a description, in the same way that another board I frequent is definitely a British board, because the majority of the content is contributed by a particular nationality/culture.

I'm deeply offended that you would see this as an american board. i call you a manc tart to make you feel at home afterall.

Awwk, that's too Canadian. Those northerners are a problem.

What kind of beer is that in the tip mug? That should answer the question.

Well it sure as hell doesn't look cloudy and warm..

I think limey put it best. The culture is American on this board regardless of how welcoming some members are.

It doesn't matter though. I don't know why some Americans are so upset at the assertion. Why does it matter?

It looks like a fourex, but that'd make it NZ nowdays.

It was actually a Sam Adams variety that I found I didn't like.

I agree with SundaeGirl, DanaC and Limey. This board is an American board from my point of view but it's not a bad thing at all. :) I haven't seen or read anything that would have bothered me because it is "too American" or anything like that.

Even though there are users from many other countries too, I don't think there would be nearly as much discussion of some local events of those countries compared to the things happening in the US. Maybe Australiand and Brits and some others could do that, but not so many other nationalities.

For example, I have no idea how many writers/lurkers from Finland keep coming here, but probably the discussion wouldn't be overwhelmingly active if I started a thread about some things happening here. :) But I visit some Finnish forums where I can discuss about those things, or keep lurking there too and just read the discussion of the more active writers...

From my point of view, it's nothing less than thrilling that the Cellar becomes more and more international. In its first 8 years of operation, it was a local phone call to reach, and so we were guaranteed Philly people and nothing but Philly people. People would leave the Cellar because they moved away!

Well tell us something from a Finish point of view that you would consider to be a prevailing view among your country men... I mean besides we all suck or how bad the US is, something interesting.

Give it a shot - I'd love to know whats going on there and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

but but but, that's cuz our stuff is actually important. being american and all.

I was at a PTO meeting a few months ago, and -as usual- they were moaning that we are "too white". We're a magnet school, so our demographics differ from the neighborhood the school is in. Which is a pretty white area. As usual we debate why/how ..........the more culturally diverse sections of the catchment area are over an hour's schoolbus ride away.....
and at the last moment of the debate, a black mom and former chair of the PTO (who resigned mid-term) pipes up (paraphrased): You ain't ever gonna get equality in the school until you really address the equity issues. Y'all say you want more "minorities", but you keep running it the white way. You're all so polite with whose turn it is to speak and not getting mad with each other. That's not our way. We get mad and in your face and you won't let us do that. That's not how we do it and why we feel alienated.

I got her point. I didn't realise before that moment that there were different ways of doing these things. She wasn't bitter, she didn't expect any change and ahe still is a part of it and apparently enjoys it, but it has hit a nerve for me....
but pretty much the rest of the PTO thought she was hallucinating because they know they have no skin color issues. And they don't. They just don't have any friends who have a different skin color to set them straight on what it is and how it feels to be black. or brown. or coffee. or caramel.... or green........

but the point being, because I was in the majority and was very used to the way thins run, it never occurred to me that anyone could perceive the setup as being biased. But it was. That understood, the mom didn't want us to change it, she just wanted us to realize that it was like a foreign language sometimes.

And I think that's all we non-Americans want. We don't want to change the board, we' don't even need a nod to the fact that you know we're not on the same page. We love how it is, but it is an American board and you guys just can't see that because you are American.

Sure, turn the meeting into a Gansta Ho slapdown, to make them feel more welcome. :eyebrow:

That's not accurate, for me, at all. I recognize that there are different types of people from different places, but I don't obsess on it, or make threads about it. For me, the internet is all about bringing people together, and there aren't any restrictions on that based on geographical boundaries or national affiliations.

This is from SG's original post:
Exactly. The internet has brought us together, allowing us to learn about each other, and now, we can focus on our common humanity.

This is because the internet has no national boundaries. The internet is everywhere. To try to give it a geographical attribute is inherently illogical to me, and I just can't get past that.

There are no foreigners on the internet, only human beings. This is the new world order you've been hearing about. One world, one love. All that.

P.S. I don't notice anything different about this place that sets it apart from more "international" boards I have posted on. So that right there tells me that we are all just human beings with a lot of things in common no matter where we're from. To try to place us in categorized boxes seems superficial to me. That's not what the internet is for. It's for coming together, not huddling in homogenous lumps.

I think my point was missed by myself too last night. :) It's easier for Americans (and Australians and Brits) to talk about interesting events in their country, because the language is the same. If I linked to some Finnish newspaper and asked what do you think about it, I'd have to translate the article first, and unfortunately I'm way too lazy for that. :)

It doesn't bother me at all, and as I tried to tell, I have no problems about the Cellar being an American place (from my point of view).
I might start some threads later, but now I have about 7 minutes to turn off this terrible time-consumer (my computer, not the Cellar ;) ) and get to work...

Flint, unless you are frequenting international boards where English is not the main language, you are statistically likely to be on one where Americans are the mainstay of the board.

The reason I started the thread was because it really bugged me that something so obvious to me was being vehemently denied. It was like going through the looking glass. I had to reassure myself that in fact I wasn't crazy. I'm not obsessed by it, by any means. If I was I would start linking to this thread in other posts. Ahem.

Flint, just admit that you're wrong and we can all go back to being part of one glorious whole :grouphug: (Rimmer)

Somehow, I can identify with that.
NoBoxes
But then I'm frequenting international boards where English is not the main language.

sorry. i knew i shouldn't have joined in.

But no!
You are the most qualified. Don't start being stingy with your expertise now!

My introduction to internet communities was a place filled with (English-speaking) Aussies, Cannucks, Kiwis, Brits, and fluent English speakers from all corners of the globe. English speakers are everywhere, and I'll remind you that it isn't an "American" language.

The numbers will be skewed towards Americans because we have a larger population, that's all.

To say that a place is an "American" board sounds like a description of its character, not a statistical analysis.

I don't think we can continue to indulge national characteristics as an important element of human interaction. That part of history is dying away, this is the future. We're all here together.

There is one human race. This is a HUMAN board.

I'm not "denying" it, I'm questioning its significance. Why should we pick apart the things that separate us, and put the focus on that? We're all human, and we all have more in common than the trivial, divisive cultural idiosyncraices we cling to.

It is American in character due to the statistic that the majority of posters are American.

Whether you choose to recognise it or not, there are differences between people of different countries. Ask Slang if living in the Phillipines is the same as living in America. Ask Monster and Perry Winkle if Britain and the USA are the same. Ask me if I saw any daily differences when I lived in France as a 15 year old (aside from the language obviously) It's not indulgent, it's the way things are. Denying that differences exist doesn't change anything.

Anyway, I got what I wanted from the thread. I know that other people see what I do, and that the people who don't can't or won't understand the point I was making.

Hurray! Once again I win the game! (Dr Carlton)

"Whether you choose to recognise it or not..." Where are you getting that I'm "denying" or "choosing not to recognize" anything? Please read my posts.

Other people "see what you do" becasue you don't have a unique insight. You're not contributing anything that isn't obvious.

People are from different places. Agreed. Obvious.

There are differences in people from different places. Agreed. Obvious.

As it isn't difficult to grasp these basic concepts, the question is what do we do now?

We're all here together in this worldwide community that has no boundaries whatsoever. For the first time in history, people from anywhere in the world can converse in real time, as if they were next-door neighbors. This is a major, important advance in human culture! This changes everything!

Oh, wait, but all SG cares about is that this is an "American" board. That is just sad, to me. It strikes me as small-minded. You've taken this amazing opportunity in human interaction and found something negative to pick apart and complain about. That actually turns my stomach a little.

You're the one who sees what I am saying as a problem.
I don't see this board as being a bad place at all. If I did, I wouldn't be here.

What do we do now? Eh? I don't need this place to change.
We carry on communicating, getting to know people, sharing details of our lives and learning what is different and what is the same and enjoying it. Those with turned stomachs are excepted of course.

As Monster explained, certain words and phrases, while still in English, carry different connotations in different countries. If you aren't cognizant of where the poster is from, you can misinterpret the post.

I think this shows up more in the daily banter than posts on serious international issues, but it's still important to flow of thoughts and feelings.

The cultures will slowly merge, and we accelerate the process.

I see that YOU have a problem or you wouldn't be saying anything in the first place.

What else is there to your observation, if not an implied complaint? It's obvious that we are from different places and have different things about us--in fact it's SO obvious that there's nothing there to make a thread about.

The second, unfounded complaint you have is that Americans have a "blind spot" to the obvious thing you think you are so clever for having observed.
___

And the old-guard luddites will drag their feet at every step, constantly reminding us that we should stay segregated into little boxes that will be increasingly impossible to maintain the illusion of. I'm against that. If you hadn't noticed. There's no point in resisting the future--it comes whether you welcome it or not.

One thing that doesn't change in the Cellar no matter its make-up, we will find something to argue about.

Fag?

No, but he is exploring his softer side.

Nope. I wondered if I was alone in seeing this board as inhererntly American in character, because when I posted that it was disagreed with. I can't be arsed to go back and count how many times I stated that it wasn't a problem, it wasn't a complaint, I didn't have an issue with it, I really like this board, I enjoy the different perspective I get here. Quite apart from the fact that anyone who reads my posts should know this anyway - I revel in the differences because of what they teach me.
There's no second complaint as there is no first complaint. But questioning someone else's opinion isn't a complaint anyway. I don't think I'm clever for having a different opinion to some people on this board, no. And there are Americans on here who have seen what I am trying to say.

I am one of the Americans who has seen what you are trying to say. There is no difference in opinion, because the original observation isn't debatable--it can demonstrated by raw data, i.e. a greater number of American posters.

Now, putting that first-level, blatantly obvious aspect of the conversation to the side, there is the matter of what does this actually mean, in real-life terms?

You suggest that a person's nationality/geographical location should cause them to feel a distinct separateness, of all places on an INTERNET site (which has no geographical constraints)! This makes smoke come out of my ears. You're focused on the OLD model of human interaction. That isn't how things are done anymore.

If you feel out of place, on the internet, because of where you are physically at, then all I can say is "You're doing it wrong."

You get so pissy when you're losing. :lol2:

I think we're having two different conversations.

So this was about word usage? Now THAT I can agree with but that's not what they are conversing about.

I thought we already were.

This is why you can love/hate flint. That's so smart to be almost poetic.

I am still waiting for someone to tell Flint to chill though. My fair meter is blinking. He is way more to the point and the quick than I was.
That means he's blighter too.


ah never mind. It's payday hey! :)

No.
I'm really not saying that. I think you are taking what I have said and taking the next step - it's honestly not one I am taking, or am interested in taking.

This was my original post:
I've even kept in the typo.

In this case Coberst was specifically criticising Americans, and I was actually trying to make the point (obviously very poorly) that in fact he was making points about the whole of the Western world, but giving American specific reasons for his conclusions. Which made no sense when his criticisms could be applied to any number of countries who do not have a common history with the US. I felt he was addressing the board as if it was composed solely of Americans, and that's certainly not true.

However, this lead to me explaining that if you post on a board where general terms like the Government, the military, the schools, the sports industry, tv channels, advertising etc etc ALL mean The American Government, the American military etc and not the ones you (I) am familiar with and know how they work, then you do adjust your mindset slightly. It is barely noticeable after a while, but sometimes a thread will surprise you (football being an obvious example).

I don't want to feel different, to feel apart. I react to the people here - not their nationality. But if you took all the locations away then I would still be making the same adjustments. It's not a bad thing. I don't mind. I'm not complaining. I think I'm done.

I've tried to put my point logically. I've kept coming back because I felt I was being identified as something I'm not and my views were being twisted. But we won't agree, so really I'll just let my posts show that I'm not small minded or trying to pull anything apart. If they don't then that's my bad and I'll live with it.

That's what Sundae was talking about... the Cellar has a American flavor because of the preponderance of American posters, that shows in the daily banter. How many "International" boards go on and on about Philly cheesesteaks?

Flint's railing against everyone that doesn't buy into his brave new world, because he wants people to forget he's from Texas.

THEY aren't having the same conversation.

That's exactly what I'm doing, because that's what I do. I'm sorry if I dragged you along the tangent I couldn't resist following.

It is interesting to see your original post:
I don't categorize, in my mind, "foreign" posters into a "contingent." That's exactly the opposite of what I think the internet is for.

But to show you that I understand your point, let me propose this analogy: Being a non-American on a predominantly American disscussion forum might feel something like being a non-Christian in America. And God knows I've done my fair share of beating that subject to death.

Thank you.
And btw I feel the same (albeit to a to a lesser degree, despite having a state religion) in the UK.
:grouphug:

Okay, huggy-thing, now jeez let's move on...

What? No! The whole point of fighting is the make-up sex, and you want to just rush through that part? That's just freaking... un-American.

Don't bring Jesus into it now!

hey sundae girl? i was just wondering why you have such a problem with this being an american board?

My problem isn't with this being an American board, lookout.
My problem is with YOU.

you have a problem with me being an american? why do you hate our tall building Sundae? why?:sniff:

It's not your tall buildings we hate, its your freedom.

It would be nice to have an 'international news' section on the cellar. Maybe it would make it seem all the more inclusive. I for one would love first hand reports of the goings on of other countries by their citizens.


STILL no freedom from taxes! We got to pay for all those bridges leading to nowhere.
(not a metaphor)

I don't think that's needed. I doubt there are non-americans on here who feel uneasy about including news items from their own countries in the regular forums. I know I feel quite happy to include English news, and I know plenty of us post news items from various different countries, not necessarily our own. The only limitation on local news is one of language, and there's not really much we can do about that.

The current affairs and politics forums are already international, in that they contain stories and events from many different countries and are posted by a mixed community.

news from...outside the US? that's what war reporters are for right?

:lol2:

Fries, Dana. Freedom fries.
I know you hate superior Europeans, but it's true. I can only think it's due to our education. I can't think of many Brits who don't know that New York is the capital of America, and can name the two other major cities (Disneyland and Hollywood).

Philadelphia is the Capitol, silly.;)

Fixed it for ya

Fixed it for ya

touche' - well done ya British commie tart.

I just wandered into the public library computer room to look up a hint for my Sherlock Holmes game, and I have to say...you guys are the best. This thread signifies all that is Cellar, imo: point, counterpoint, passion, friends, acceptance, debate, even a little irritation at each other. It's a great read.

That is all.

:)

I was just going to make fun of the land that has produced Katie Price, er Prince, or whatever the hell her name is... but then I remembered we have Britney and Lindsay Lohan.

On second thought I'll just link to her wiki page. check out those measurements Elspode.

Big Boobs McCluskie