Antisocial and dependent would be my guess.

Not surprising. We have a "diversion" program to keep the local hoosgow from being a spare psych hospital ... although it's like walking a tightrope sometimes, as there are real instances where crazy people do things because they are criminals, not because they are crazy.

We have a similar situation over here. The percentage of the prison population, thought to be suffering serious mental illness is very high. Hell of a lot of the prison population are learning disabled as well, which tends to keep them (when they aren't in the prison system) hidden from view, much less likely to be seeing a doctor regularly, or be in regular employment, so much easier to slip unseen from mild to serious mental issues. Lot of people spend their whole lives slipping through the nets and never quite being recognised for what they are.

Send 'em all to Iraq.

*blinks* I have no response to that.

These animals need to "ride the lightning".
The one little cocksucker SMILED at reporters.
His thought is "I'm juvie, I'll go inside "til I'm 18, then I'm back out."
And what real deterrent is prison to these felons?
None.
3 hots and a cot, weight room, cable TV, and other cons to teach them how to be better criminals.
Put them in GenPop, let 'em live until the morning of their 18th b-day, and let 'em fry.
The one has a police record marking him as a violent offender.

And where the fuck is fat-ass Reverend Al during all this?
Or is "black-on-black" crime not his thing?
Maybe he's hiding from Tawana Brawley.

Or Reverend Jesse Jackson?
Where is he?
I guess this isn't a "White Man Conspiracy", so it's beneath him to comment.

America has gotten too soft on criminals like this.
"Oooh, we don't want to violate their civil rights."
Fuck that.
These pukes lost their rights when they pushed the mother back into the apartment.
Up until that point, they could have said "This is some fucked-up shit" and walked away.

The mother was gang-raped and the son tortured.

Execute them.
No appeals.
None of this ACLU shit.
None of this "disadvantaged black youth" bullshit.
None of this "Oh, but my child could never do this!" shit.
Yes he could, and he did.
A condom with DNA traced back to one attacker.
He was there.
Execute him.
A palm print linked back to another one.
He was there.
Execute him.

Execute them, cremate the remains, and mix the remains into the concrete used to build a new wing onto the jail.
They don't deserve burial in consecrated ground.

Yeah... then we all become what they are, exactly what they are.

Is it not true that whatever their sentence ends up being, they'll serve it in juvenile detention until such time as they reach majority and thereafter will serve the remainder of their sentance in an adult facility?

That's what I thought happened. That's how it works over here I think.

Depends. It's different in every state, and practically for every crime. But there is a distinct set of times when a juvenile serves time until their 18th birthday, and then their record is sealed and they walk away free and clear. (Somebody somewhere thought it was a good idea to give blanket second-chances...) There was actually a case of teens who murdered with the specific excuse of, "We're 16, so we won't do jail time." They tried those fuckers as adults too.

Honest question here...Doesn't character imply an observable defense reaction and personality doesn't necessarily?
You're the pro. you tell me. Not that it matters or applies to the subject at hand.
I don't think this can be blamed on anyone but the kids in question. It wasn't their environment, the failure of public education, or the faults of their parents.
Maybe they are just f'ing evil folks. The same kind of people can come from a very healthy background with a supportive family and great education.

In most cases in America, Juveniles serve their sentence until they are 18 and then the walk away WITHOUT a record!! Thats the problem over here, Ali. They could potentially serve 2-5 years depending on their ages. If they are tried as adults then they may serve much longer sentences.
Personally, there isn't a sentence long enough for what the did. Such a blatant disregard for human life deserves whatever we as a society can to GUARANTEE they NEVER have the opportunity to do anyone else any harm. Make an example of them??? I don't know if that works, I think thats a discussion for another thread.

I wouldn't be so quick to let the parents off the hook.

It's a shame she wasn't armed.

Its hard to make that argument since most of the crime like this comes from lower class communities. This has been the trend throughout history that poverty allows a greater number and more brutal (at least on the surface) crime on an individual level.

If these kids were raised in a suburban neighborhood, I have a really hard time believing they would be pulling the same shit. They would still be the "bad" kids but suburban kids that get in trouble have no comparison to urban kids that get in trouble.

In reality, it has to be a great mixture of genetics, parenting, and environment.

Fair statement.

If they are juveniles, they should be tried as such.

Whether this should result in a different sentence if found guilty than if they had been adults is a different issue. As is the age of adult responsibility. Personally, I think a 16yo is plenty old enough to be expected to have mature insight into those sort of crimes.

That said, here comes the grey area. I would like to know "why" they did it. If there's a single element of "because they knew they could get away with it because of their age", then I think an adult trial seems appropriate. But that's such a hard thing to judge. Such is life.

Also, is it just me that thinks the forcing the mom to give the son a bj seems incongruent with the gang rape. Why would they want to do that after they had all got their rocks off? Was it really a sex crime? Or was it more about humiliation, and if so, what's the betting one of those jerks has pics on their cellphones? The cynic in me asks if the last bit even really happened. Although it would be a bizarre thing to make up.

Nothing to do and nothing to lose.

maybe. But I want to hear it from them

I suspect the only think you'll hear from them is, "Duh...I dunno".

yup. If that.

Rape is never really about sex. Rape is about violence, humiliation, and subjugation. Which, when you get right down to it, is even sicker than if it were about sex.

Sex crimes are rarely about sex. They are about power and control.

I don't actually understand your question.

These "kids" committed a very adult crime. They planned it, and worse yet, they planned it en masse, even to the point of bringing condoms. That alone shows that they knew what they were planning was wrong because they hoped to conceal it, all before actually committing it.

The real answers will not come from asking these horrible, horrible wastes of flesh why they did what they did, but it would instead come from asking them why what they did was wrong. They don't seem all too smart, so I can imagine that it wouldn't be hard to get them to answer that question before they realize why it was being asked (to establish that they knew better). And I guarantee you that they knew better.

Rape is a violent crime that damages its victims beyond repair, and the damage increases exponentially by the number of attackers. I was raped in 1993, 14 years ago, and I will never be the same again. The guy who raped me for damn sure knew better, and I think that any child over the age of 8 who wasn't raised by wolves does, as well.

I'm firmly in the camp of removing these monsters from society for good, never to see the light of day again. What they did is indicative of something gone wrong deep in the moral wiring of them, and I don't believe that there is any fixing that kind of aberrant behavior. I also don't see the point in locking people up for life. Lethal injection, electric chair, hanging by a noose, whatever is cheapest. I don't think my tax dollars should be used to warehouse consciousless monsters who, if they were to escape, would only create more victims all over again.

Oh that is priceless.

But, it really is unfair to robots.

Now someone around here is really making sense. But I think they should have to live for awhile as scarred as their victims.

Again, if you have no arms, the chances of you actually forcing yourself on someone else with a gun are diminished.
Knowing why they did this serves no purpose. It is what it is, an extemporaneous circumstance. It's not like they were merely rebelling against society or their parents, they were rebelling against any human concept they've ever had, and let them keep on keepin' on. Just minus a few arms.
Let them keep rollin'............................
They could impress each other with the make and model of their new wheelchairs.

I'd line each of them up on the top of a hill with their hands cuffed behind their backs. I'd nail their balls to a stump, and then kick the stump over so it rips their nuts off as it rolls down the hill. Then I'd torture them for a day or two until they begged me to die. And then I'd like them up and mow them down with a machine gun.

Yeah.. they are the sick ones.

ClarificationTell that to Jeffery Dahmer. Not that I disagree that more sick stuff happens in the impoverished areas. I just think that you are letting suburbanites off the hook. Just like everyone else.......I know what suburbanite kids do.
Never heard of the football team rapists? Not to be cliche but.......

Let's see, someone gang rapes a woman and forces her into incest with her son, who they blinded and beat, and I dish out the punishment they deserve, and I'm the sick one?

I have an answer for that. Nope, not sick for that.
I think people are confused between Justified Anger on the behalf of a fellow human being and sickness.
Which is a completely different subject............but at this point, something to point out to all those in the "just as sick as they are" camp.
I am done monopolizing this thread though....I can be such a harpy...........

I was raised in a suburban area and it is not even close to as bad as urban areas. Yes, there will be a be a few sick kids in suburban areas but those are extremely rare while crime in urban areas is more common. Suburban kids do not have the social motivation to pull any of that shit.


Don't we have a law like "No cruel or unnecessary punishment"? Torturing the victims isn't going to fix anything, it is just going to show who has the bigger cock. These kids should be punished greatly but to torture them to make yourself feel better is still extremely sick disturbing and pointless.

That's why all the serial killers and mass murderers come from impoverished areas, right Peirce?

Or maybe people are confused between 'justice' and enraged vengeance.

Exactly, justice is never vengeance and vengeance is never justice.

Not at all, you have expressed legitimate points.

It's unusual punishment, which means different from what society normally hands out. Society determines what the punishment should be. At one time everyone convicted of capital crimes was shot or hung. We've unfortunately gotten away from that, but we could change that and still stay within the Constitutional restriction on "unusual".

Well that doesn't include me because I already said I thought that woman and her son deserve vengeance.
Rage can also be justified.
If I think of this happening to someone close to me, i'm sure i'd still want vengeance.
What about you?
What if it were you and your son? (if you have one, whatever) If it were me I'd take vengeance over a false sense of justice any day.

Those kids will be sitting in the can for 10 years and getting out on good behavior. No matter what verbiage we use and how "confused" we are. This happens over and over like I said earlier, and very often in Florida. When something like this happens to you- let me know, and come back to me and define "justice" again.
:)

Yeah. You're right, I've never been gangraped and forced to fellate my own son. I am assuming you also haven't experienced this. Neither of us have experienced that specific crime, both of us are capable of imagining how we may respond/feel/suffer or seek vengeance. I am sure, if I suffered that, I'd personally want to kill them. Which is why their sentence/punishment, shouldn't be up to me, but should be up to an objective legal system. That way, no possibility of delivering vengeance via the justice system.

Either the judicial system is there to ensure justice, or it's there to provide vengeance. Individual victims may seek vengeance, but society, I believe, should provide justice.

The victim and justice system don't don't have to disagree, however.

No, that is why there is more crime in impoverished areas and why those crimes are more severe.

Mass murders are something completely different. Those guys are most likely insane or very messed up while those kids probably knew exactly what they were doing.

Oops, that is what I meant.

Actually the term is "Cruel AND unusual punishment". If we gave all murderers the death penalty via hand grenade thrown in their cell and all rapists the punishment of having their junk cut chewed off by rabid wolverines, some could call it cruel but it would not be cruel and unusual and would therefore not violate the 8th amendment.

Thankfully it is the court's interpretation and not yours that counts.

Well, that's my main problem with the courts. They try to "interpret" a document that was written in simple English. It doesn't require interpretation. It isn't vague or ambiguous in the slightest. It means exactly what it says and in any case where someone has a question, the tie goes to the runner meaning if there's a case where a power could belong to the government or the people, it belongs to the people.

They don't need wheelchairs - they can still walk around????

Where does prevention come in or rehabilitation??? I don't think that putting these kids in jail for any period of time is "punishment." They probably have many friends and family members there already anyway - and when they get out they just wear the fact that they were in as a badge of honor.

As for rehab - There is no rehabbing anyone who does something like this - they should simply be shot, injected or whatever - Instead of spending OUR money on keeping them alive, lets put it toward the children that are savable. The judicial system is full of people who are NEVER coming out and we are all paying for them - dearly I might add.

Just think of the billions we spend to keep those evil pot smokers locked up.

It's not the meaning of the word "and" that requires interpretation, it's the meaning of the words "cruel" and "unusual".

Dwellars please follow: according to Radar's "no interpretation necessary" understanding of the US Constitution, having a wild animal chew off a prisoner's genitals is not "cruel and unusual".

There's no stronger case for the need for court interpretation, instead of Radar non-interpretation. Luckily the framers left the job of interpretation up to the courts instead of just assuming we'd all understand what it says.

Unusual is pretty easy, cruel is quite open to interpretation, however.

Wait a minute... If it says cruel and unusual, does that mean it can be cruel if it's not unusual? Or unusual if it's not cruel?

Lets instead use that money for some real rehabilitatable individuals or something where we can actually make a beneficial difference to/for society - not just neatly hiding the evildoers in a corner and feeling good that they were "punished." Wipe this scum off the face of the earth and move on. Help those that want, we can, and deserve our help.

Punishment for crimes is not vengeance and it is justice.

That's exactly what it means. It means a judge can sentence you to stand with a sandwich board around you on a corner that says you are a pedophile. This is unusual, but not cruel.

re: cruel and unusual punishment - Since putting them in prison or juvenile detention doesn't seem to work - JUST a question or 2.

Is the thought of going to jail a deterrent to these types of people? Apparently not - therefore...

Would the thought of their life ending VERY quickly? And I meaqn without years of delays and appeals? I gotta think that even the most immoral assholes gotta value, if nothing else their lives.

Who's to blame ?
 

It seems fitting that the guilt be burdened by the parents of these criminals. Their death sentence be made manditory to be viewed in person by their parents. As well as full coverage by nationl Television. The ones who raised these children are certainly more to blame than the perpetrators.

The framers gave the courts no such "interpretation" powers in the Constitution. Also, having a wild animal chew off a prisoner's genitals is very cruel, but if applied widely to a lot of people it's not unusual. Therefore it's not cruel AND unusual.

There are many who would agree that this is an appropriate form of punishment for child molesters.

Uh, no I don't think so - for many reasons.

It seems fitting that the guilt be burdened by the parents of these criminals. Their death sentence be made manditory to be viewed in person by their parents. As well as full coverage by national Television.
.
The ones who raised these children are certainly more to blame than the perpetrators. Overall more effective on Societys main issue. "Raising the future generations members".
.
Put the blame where it belongs.

Let's be fair. They may not have planned bringing along the condoms.

Their school probably gave the rubbers to them.