I think it is unfair to ask any ethnic group to change who they are. Than is an impossible and unrealistic expectation IMHO. I would suggest that assimilation and opportunity for future generations is hindered by a desire to exclaim ethnicity through names that few can pronounce and open an individual to an unfair situation. I blame parents. You will never stop society from being racist, that is another pipe dream IMHO. This will never be a utopian society.

People should name their children whatever the hell they want. For christs sake, it's a fucking name.

It's a parents responsibility to teach a child how to deal with biggots and racists if they happen to have a child with coloured skin or if they choose to give their child a non white name.

I can't believe this is even a topic of conversation.

As to African people having 'white names', I don't suppose anyone thinks they got those names because of missionary influences in their native country? I seriously doubt a tribal woman from africa gave birth and said, "I think I'll name my son John" out of the blue.

Names are names. They say something about who you are and where you come from. Keep your name and your heritage and stand your ground! If everyone just caves in to the biggots of society nothing will ever change.

I think everyone should name their children what ever the hell they want to, too.

Just don't get pissed off when a non-native speaker has trouble with it.


My name is not 'usual' for these parts--neither my first nor my last. I don't get my panties in an uproar when people around here don't 'get' my name. I don't except them to 'get' it. It's a difficult name and I am more than happy to spell and sound it out for them.

If you want to give your child a unique or ethnic name, be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Exactly. My oldest son has an ordinary sounding name, but the spelling is different because it's the letters of my Nana's name changed to make a boys name. He was named for her, but I couldn't really call my son Edna. The only people I get pissed off at for spelling it incorrectly are close family members who know that he's named for our Nana.

PS--

many of our devoted dwellars simply love a good panty uproar no matter what the reason--I don't judge.


I simply let wedgies be wedgies. I suppose, to some people, a wedgie feels gooooooooood.

Go for it. I say let them have at it. But don't be surprised by the consequences.

Who's surprised?

Do your job applications get trashed because of your name?

At least you admit that discrimination exists. Perhaps AA protects these folks from having their applications trashed.

Do you have a low opinion of people who don't want suffer discrimination?

No. And I do not support Affirmative Action. Merit based promotions only.

And yet you admit that it doesn't happen that way. Hmmm...

Well of course I admit. Afirmative Action is alive and well in some few remaining places. There are however, a number of places doing away with it and in my opinon, it is long over due for a death.

I'd give up if I were you Spex. ;)

The AA hiring system doesn't bother me near as much as what happens inside the company in the name of cultural diversity. Most medium to large companies already know what your job is and exactly how they want you to perform it. Cultural diversity is a sham, a show, because they don't really want diversity but conformity. :rolleyes:

Good idea, you should quit while I'm ahead.:handball::D

I know what you mean because in the case of "Cultural diversity" the organization can set their own rules and benchmarks for what is sucess in that arena. It boggles the mind what organizations will do to be PC for outward appearence all the while practicing their own form of internal discrimination toward what ever the minority group may be at the time.

So is discrimination.

Discrimination is alive and well in the US. And now we are seeing reverse discrimination by blacks towards whites. We see minorities promote minorities behind the guise of AA and "Cultural Diversity". All I am saying is that if you want an even playing field do what all the great black leaders of the Civil Rights Movement preached, remove color from the equation all together and promote solely on merit. Any of you ever spent any time in Miami where English has become a second language?

I agree. Now, since we all know that it doesn't happen , what's your solution? What can we do to make that happen?

Come on, you know the answer....

'Cause true diversity comes from people who look different.

Yea true, but I am not really advocating that or am I against it. I want the smartest people in the best jobs and best schools I don't care about their color.

I would suggest taking all pictures and names off applications. Give them a number. This will allow all kinds of people to make it through any subjective process people use for hiring, promotion, or school admission.

Ok, then. Make it so.

I agree with Mercenary on the removing the names and pictures from applications.

The biggest problem is that minorities are born into poor families and are disadvantaged from that. Racism and classism are being molded into one beast. If we can work on the elimination of classism, racism will go away as well.

The problem with that solution is the proponents of elimination of classism find the solutions in wealth redistribution. I will have no part of that under any circumstance. Taxes are a form of wealth redistribution and more taxes are not a solution. Socialist forms of society are not going to cut it here.

Wealth is being redstributed all the time. When I spend money, it goes into rich people's pockets, so they can buy more unnecessary stuff.

Wait... I just heard from a minority who didn't have to put his name or picture on an application. When he was interviewed, though, the company representative saw that he is a minority, and disqualified him from the job prospect.

How can we make sure that minorities are not discriminated against?

You can't. Advancement and employment by merit. Nothing else. Why do you think I should hire someone who has a highschool diploma over a person who has a college degree beacause the person with the diploma is black? That is the problem we have now under AA. Unqualified minorities in jobs as tokens so an organization can stand up and say look I hired a minority. How do you prevent that? People who are fully and more importantly more qualified for jobs and schools are pushed aside in the name of political correctness. I ain't buying it and I do not support it.

I was not talking about getting rid of classes (different issue) but the discrimination against the lower class. If you are poor and you skip class, you are looked as lazy and worthless, if you are rich and you skip class, you are looked as a rebel.

I agree with this on the surface but when you look deeper you find the real problem. Does the black person with a high school diploma have the same chance as the white person with a college degree to get into college in the first place? This is the real problem in my opinion and AA is only a cover to hide this.

Is this my problem? Should my non-minority child lose a chance at advancement for feel good solutions to promote people who are not fully qualified? Should I not get a job because an individual minority in a position of power wants to promote someone of like color?

Can you show ANY evidence that less qualified minorities being hired or promoted is prevalent? I'm sure it happens, (we read about it in the conservative biased media) but is it really a significant issue? How often does it really happen?

More often, a white person with a highschool diploma is hired over a minority with a college degree.

You can't make a playing field level just by saying that's the way it should be. Racists and predjudiced "hirers" and "promoters" will merely continue what they've been doing - discriminating against minorities.

Ok, tell me how you are going to ensure that people are not hiring minorities just to hire them? Because that is the situation we have created. So how do we fix it? How do you stop reverse discrimination from occuring? I have seen it first hand in the military. The people who complained are ignored. The minority boards believe that there is no such a thing as reverse discrimination. Ask any of the black scholars and they will tell you that it cannot even exist. How do you fix this. PUSH and Jessie Jacksons outfit have perfected the minority arm twisting and extortion to ensure that minorities get contracts, even when they may not have been the best choice. There are numerous examples in the press. Kids being denied admission to State owned universities. Firemen being promoted ahead of peers because they are a minority. Where does the PC crap end and merit begin. IMHO the glass ceiling is getting thicker with every PC action like this.

My girlfriend is half mexican. On her tests and college apps and everything else, she gets to mark 'hispanic' and probably gets an advantage over me for it (not that she needs it, shes perfect enough already). Why? Because she's an "underprivelledged minority".

Except shes not. Her family has at least as much money as mine does, her dad works at the same place my dad did (and probably at higher pay), her mother doesnt even need to work, they actually own their house... etc.

Affirmative Action should be based on socioeconomic class, not race. Help the poor people, all of them, not just the ones who arent white, and not the relatively well-off people who also arent white, just on that basis.

Rich people can be very good at hiding money ... as many college financial aid officers can tell you.

Your child should not be held back and rarely will your child ever be. It is just that minority children are at a disadvantage but I personally don't think AA will solve that problem and will only make it worse because it favors racism.

Yes, but how do we deal with this new type of reverse discrimination that has developed. Ignore it? Accept it? I think not.

The reason we have this reverse racism is to cover up a much larger problem. If we focus on that problem, we can eliminate discrimination for both sides.

All AA is doing is getting people pissed off and making it seem like white America "cares" about minorities.

You should have been in the room when I explained to my mother that someone who did not meet their criteria was getting my spot instead because I was white... took a while.
Should have sued now that I know what happened in Texas.
It would have helped others.
It is not "reverse" anything, it is racism against whites and nothing more.
Racism is racism.
We just replaced one with another.

Who here is a minority or has a minority member in their household?

Raise hands.

I'm and atheist and disabled. Hand is up.

PS--

I qualify my own familia with: five Hispanics, three Pakistanis and (god help us) various French-speaking peoples. But, not the French-French--the spat-upon Creole, the Creole, the mothers were hampster's and the father's...well, let's just let bygones be bygones....

Racism my ASS.

rkz--

I see your disability and raise you an atheist.

Some say my 1/4 Native American is enough... I wonder.


I'll see your atheist and see you an atheist Deep Southerner, nuh!

Edit: that was an actor and eats sushi! *hell gets cold*

*raises hands* (one for each child)

Yes it is. More than enough for many things including a college scholarship, if you can prove it.

How could they disprove it? Would they really put forth the money and effort to test?

I wouldn't know. But I am pretty sure you only have to prove 1/16 of a native american heritage to get assistance.

The burden is on the individual--you have to be enrolled with a tribe and have a census number. As far as I know, most tribes require at least 1/4 to be enrolled.

Oh yeah--*raises hand* 1/2 Native American

A guy at work said he couldn't get in a NJ tribe with 1/8th.

There's quite a few places I know will let you in for an 1/8th.......we talkin bout somethin different huh?