How about racist?

The following is from the current front page of Valley Park's website:

The City of Valley Park has passed an ordinance making it illegal for businesses to hire illegal aliens and for landlords to rent to illegal aliens. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF) and others have brought together a team of 22 lawyers to sue the City and halt the enforcement of the ordinance. Their lawsuit, brought on behalf of three landlords and a business, argues that the City's ordinance violates numerous federal and state constitutional provisions and discriminates against classes of tenants and employees illegally. The suit seeks compensation for attorney fees and seeks to fine the City Officials for violations of state open meetings laws. Valley Park has denied the allegations and has assembled a legal team to defend it's ordinance and it's officials.

The City has retained the services of a law professor at the University of Missouri who was the chief advisor to former U.S. Attorney General Ashcroft on immigration matters. Prof. Kobach is a nationally known expert in immigration and constitutional law. Valley Park has a limited budget and is a small city, with the population less than 7,500 citizens, whereas the litigants in the suit against the City have counsel who are providing their services to them free from charges. The City has experienced much legal expenses and would appreciate the financial support of like minded persons or businesses that believe our country and way of life is threatened by unrestricted illegal immigration and the presence of illegal aliens in the community at a time when our nation is in a global war against terrorism.

Please consider donating to our cause.

Sincerely,

Jeffery Whitteaker,
Mayor

Translation by sycamore: I, along with a handful of other idges, are so hellbent on passing this shit, that we're essentially willing to bankrupt our backwater piece of shit suburb. Please save us from ourselves.

If only the floods of 1982 and 1993 had truly wiped the city off the map...

Nope, the mayor is the son of two legal immigrants.
They are quite open about how welcoming they are to their legal immigrant community and eleven immigrant businesses have opened since the ordinance has passed.
This is not about race, it is about the law and the law alone. An illegal Brit or Scott is just as illegal.

[soviet]I can't wait for this to go national, so we can encourage folks to spy on their neighbors private activities. This will be awesome.[/booster]

BTW- We're gonna need a national id card now.

Having lived in the St. Louis area most of my life, and having a good sense of the type of people that live in Valley Park, I'm gonna call "bullshit" on this...no offense to you, rk.

Griff was actually referring to the type of Democrats that are popular here in the area, not just Whitteaker.

:eek: Which is why my proposal is sound. The "moral sacrifice for the greater good" is for the people of the US, not for the minority of illegals that represent the masses. Nor for the section of the greater mass of all immigrants. They are illegal, they need to go and come back another day under a supervised plan of monitoring and a more just form of financial contribution to this country. Most border cities hospitals are heavily burdened with the debt these people have placed on the institutions for their "free indigent" care. The educational systems are burdened. The criminal justice system is burdened. The list goes on.

Oh yeah, and letting them out in the streets will be sooooo much better. We cannot just send them back to whatever country they come from because there are too many, most we wouldn't be able to find anyways, and even if we did they would come back just as fast. So, we are stuck with them. Now, let’s just ignore and disrespect them and hope they go away, right? Lets let them starve on the street, they are illegals anyways, why should we care about them?

Now, look at the consequences of these actions. They are illegals, they have no way to get money. How do you think they will survive? A life a crime. They will hurt innocent Americans because we brushed them off to the side instead of working with them to make it better for everyone. That is why helping illegals is a "moral sacrifice for the greater good" and why we should work with illegals to make them legal and DOCUMENTED.

No, you round them up and send them home. As we are slowly starting to do. No one said anything about letting them out on the streets, not me anyway. It is not just Mexicans or people of spanish/south american origin. There are huge groups of people here illegally. Send them out and make them come back registered. Give everyone of them a fair shake to comeback as a documented alien. The current plan turning a blind eye and just letting them fade into our communities is a bad policy.

Of course that's the way it always is, now isn't it? We have to work with them because they refused to work with us. They ignored our laws, now we're being black mailed into crumbling to their demands or innocent people will get hurt?

Well, like you said, life ain't fair, so kill 'em if they prey on people. Hunt them down like the criminals that they are. It's got nothing to do with race, it's about enforcing the laws the rest of us have to live by. Either enforce them or rescind them. Don't tell me I must and they don't....that's unacceptable.:mad:

I can't see how this will work. They are hiding from the law and are blending in with the civilian population. Also, if you read my post, I said that if we did send them out they would just come back. Even if you don't plan on sending them out on the streets, that is where they will go.

When did I say anything about how all illegals are just from Mexico or Latin America?

How much money and time would this cost? How are we suppose to keep them out?

The reason they are coming here is because their life is so shitting they are willing to take the risk of coming here illegally to have a better life. This won't solve anything except wasting money. Accepting them is a lot cheaper and it makes it doesn't cause hatred between two cultures.

We have had no fault in this? Maybe we shouldn't have raped their country in the first place and they wouldn't be here illegally.

I'm pretty sure we never actually raped Spain.

I love how people try to make is seem like this is about one nation.
Immigration law is just law, that is correct on both levels and has nothing to do with race.
Our immigration laws are the most liberal in the world, it is harder to become a Chinese, Indian, Mexican, or any other citizen, 90% of the time than a US citizen... but they don't like to talk about that.
Mexico treats their illegals terribly, then complains about us not just letting their citizens walk into the US with no immigration law to protect us. Poor babies... I don't think so.

I thought this was an interesting video on immigration. The speaker is Roy Beck.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...mbersusa&hl=en

His web site
http://www.numbersusa.com/index

It seems his facts stand up to scrutiny also. Click on "advisors" on the web site.

The current plan is not working, and that is a fact.
1. Close the Southern border tight.
2. Begin deportations. Go to the prisons and deport the offenders who are illegal to their host nations prisons. Refuse care for illegals at hospitals except in an emergency. Force all law enforcement agencies to notify the ICE everytime an illegal is arrested or stopped for minor offenses, allow them to be detained for deportation.
3. Set up check points where anyone who wants to enter on a work visa has the chance to get one with a picture ID, finger prints, and an iris scan, develop an extensive national data base and and enforcement personnel to use it. Insist on compliance and those who do not comply would be permanantly banned.
4. I stated thier origin because I wanted to be clear that this is not about race.
5. Time and money??? That is the problem. We have never devoted the time or the money.
6. WOW! they are comming here because thier life is so shitty in their home?!?!? Who would have thunk it!:eek: Not my problem. :violin: :thepain: We are wasting money having them here not the otherway around.
:lame:

PM me your name if you ever run for public office in a jurisdiction in which I am registered to vote.

Ugh, will someone turn on a fan or something?

Then we provide something that extremists never bother to provide - the numbers. America need 1.8 million immigrants to work the farms. America only issues 29,000 permits to do the work of 1.8 million. Therefore we must let the crops rot. Funny how once we include numbers, well TheMercenary advocated the destruction of American farming. Why? All laws must be right.

I never knew we even had a plan...

How do you plan to do this? Build a big fence?

So you will find a few illegals, what about the ones that don't do anything illegal once they are in the country?

How does this solve anything?

And if they lie?

Which is a problem for me. I would much rather spend the time and money into education, not kicking people out of our country.

So you are completely uncapable of seeing life in someone else's shoes. Do you think your life is more valuable then their's or do you not have a soul?

:comfort:

:eyebrow:

1. The current plan is to do nothing.
2. The border could easily be shut tight. Troops, fences, and electronic counter measures. Look around the world plenty of places have done it.
3. We will find most of them. Get them properly registered for a guest worker program and the can go back to doing what they were doing. They are doing something illegal by being here illegal, certainly that is not to hard to understand.:rolleyes:
4. If you don't think it solves anything then you don't think there is a problem. :borg:
5. Time and TAXPAYERS money for thier education! Now you are on to something. How much do you think we spend for the education of all of these children of illegals? What impact do you think that illegal aliens have on the border cities of say El Paso, TX or Southern Calif or LA???
6. I am completely capable of understanding the plight of illegal aliens, I just don't think that my taxes should bear the burden of their illegal acts or pay for their health care and education.:fumette:

Hey! We agree on something.

Public education is often lacking in resources, so, not nearly enough.



This 'us vs. them' mentality is bizarre and pointless. Maybe someday, those like you will realize that they ARE us, for your own peace of mind, anyway. :rolleyes:

I am quite at peace with my views on the subject, have no doubt about that. They will become us the day they become US citizens subject to all the rights and responsibilities of the US Constitution. Untill then they are illegal aliens and by being here are breaking our laws and sucking off the hind tit of what our society has to offer. If they come here legally I have no problem at all. We need LEGAL immigrants, but we don't need people circumventing the system for their personal gain so they can send the money out of the country. We already have enough corporate crooks doing that, that is another subject.

High Cost of Medical Care for Illegal Immigrants
Michael Arnold Glueck, M.D., & Robert J. Cihak, M.D., The Medicine Men

Tuesday, Dec. 27, 2005

We don't want to be thought of as Scrooges post-Christmas – particularly with the dashing approach of New Year 2006 – but we did want to make some comments regarding the consequences of illegal immigration on medicine and health care. This has certainly been one of the most important and far-reaching issues of 2005. We have received many letters from readers asking us to "Please say something" on this emotional and fractional issue.

An old axiom states that what happens in California is a precursor to what happens in the rest of the nation. Unfortunately, this is true. So look for these issues to be coming to a capital in your state soon – if they haven't arrived already.

According to the Department of Homeland Security, in 2000 the population of California had the highest percent of illegal immigrants in the country. The estimate by the Immigration and Naturalization Service was that 2,209,000 aliens resided illegally in the state, which was 31.6 percent of the estimated national total. Current 2005 illegal estimates vary between 14 million and 22 million nationwide.

A study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform estimated that in 2004 the annual uncompensated cost of medical care for illegal immigrants in California was $1.4 billion. Total uncompensated educational, health care and incarceration costs were estimated to be 10.5 billion.

Care is frequently provided to illegal immigrants by emergency rooms and is provided when a crisis exists rather than as preventive practice. Both phenomena add to the high cost of health care.

For 12 states, the government pays hospitals for providing emergency services to illegal aliens. In 2005, the state of California got $70 million to help with dismal shortfalls. California's San Diego County was about $100 million in the red and Los Angeles County about $140 million.

Many California hospitals cannot afford to absorb costs and many are forced to close due to financial mandates for treating illegal immigrants. As recently reported, 84 California hospitals are closing their doors forever. Hospital closure degrades health care to all in the community and results in job losses.

Federal laws provide states incentives to provide Medicaid coverage to illegal immigrants. All state Medicaid programs offer an endless list of services, with some states, such as Florida, literally including the kitchen sink if home repairs and maintenance are needed. Only four states check for citizenship before awarding Medicaid. California escalated – in one year – from 450,000 illegal aliens on Medi-Cal (California's version of Medicaid) in 2002 to 750,000 in 2003.

Medi-Cal covers well-baby maternity care, delivery expenses and long-term care that are incurred for children born to illegal immigrants. Thus "anchor babies" become medical insurance policies.

Noted medical lawyer Madeleine Cosman, J.D., Ph.D., wrote in her online journal on August 27, 2005, "Promoters of open borders and elevating the status of Illegal Aliens brilliantly use Americans' medical compassion against ourselves." The medical literature reports that many undocumented immigrants sequester within their bodies infectious and fatal diseases that long ago were fought and eliminated by American medicine Now illegals may carry drug-resistant strains of tuberculosis, malaria, polio, leprosy, plague, dengue fever and Chagas disease.


Are there Potential Solutions?

A number of potential solutions to reducing uncompensated health care costs require federal participation, which means that senators and congressmen from California and elsewhere must introduce federal legislation while state legislators and administrators do what is within their power to improve state laws and regulations.

Some potential solutions include:


Adopt measures to systematically collect information on undocumented alien use of taxpayer-funded services. Health care providers and civil libertarians have blocked past attempts to collect such information.

Withhold foreign aid to the country of origin in the amount spent providing uncompensated medical care and refund these moneys to providers that granted services.

Require graduates of U.S. medical schools who are citizens of foreign countries to spend community service time treating illegal immigrant patients in the U.S. as contribution in kind to defray expenses billable to that country of origin.

Provide transportation to cities in country of origin where that country is able to provide medical care.
Let's resolve, this New Year 2006, to promote a respectful exchange of ideas and opinions aimed at achieving a sane, safe and sensible solution to the immigration and medicine dilemma. With this goal our citizens, legal immigrants, illegal immigrants and those who desire to come to America and play by the rules will have a better quality of life.

It is far easier to make progress within a win-win, rather than a win-lose or lose-lose overture.

Such said, An uplifting New Year to you all!

Editor's Note: Michael Arnold Glueck, M.D., wrote this week's commentary. Contact Drs. Glueck and Cihak by e-mail.

Robert J. Cihak, M.D., is a Senior Fellow and Board Member of the Discovery Institute and a past president of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. Michael Arnold Glueck, M.D., is a Visiting Fellow in Economics and Citizenship at the International Trade Education Foundation of the Washington International Trade Council. He comments regularly on medical-legal-ethical issues.

I agree that we should make it harder to get into the country because we can't have people coming into this country undocumented but those aren't the people we should be focusing on. There are many illegal aliens that have lived honest lives despite the fact that they have come into the country illegally.

I believe that any illegals that we have in prison should be deported and then encourage the rest of the illegals to gain citizenship. Hunting the illegals down like dogs will result in great consequences and personally, I think they help us more than they hurt. You can show how much they hurt our economy but how many stats do we hear that show how much they help since they are working long hours (80+ a week) on very low paying salaries.

Ok, I don't have much time but let me give you a short answer. In the South we are experiencing a phenomenal building boom. The illegals dominate the labor force. Why? You pay them min wage, no taxes for the builders, no workman's comp is paid, no insurance. Guess who is loosing out on all those jobs. Legal citizens. The work force is dominated by these people. All the builders have to do is pay them cash, if they get hurt or injured on the job they don't have to pay them anything. The idividual is not going to complain, they are illegal and fear deportation. The builder gets a break on his costs of hiring workers and the legal laboror is locked out of the work force. Happens all the time. Same for yard workers, construction, and small businesses in food service. Guess who pays for the illegals health care. Guess who pays when they show up at the ER with pneumonia or a pregnant wife. Guess who pays when they fall off a roof. You, me, and the taxpayers.

TheMercenary, show me a legal documented worker whos willing to work those hours for that pay and do as good a job.
Whats that? There arent enough?

Whatever happened to laissez-faire conservatism anyway?

You are ignoring the market forces. There are plenty of people in this area that would do the work. Think of it like this. If you have 25 people willing to do the job but only 10 jobs are available, who sets the price for their pay? The employer. And further costs are cut because of the fact that the employer does not have to pay all the other things that are required by law.

Now if you have 15 people for 10 jobs who benifits? The worker. Because the employer will need to compete with other employeer for that work force and the pay will go up. With the best workers getting the most money.

Please tell me you are only referring to the ones who are in prison simply for being here illegally (of which there are very few, we don't have the resources to just hold onto them like that.)

"Okay, Jose AggravatedRobbery, instead of serving your 25 year sentence, we're going to free you and--dun dun DUN--deport you! Now don't come back, and we really mean it this time. And for really reals don't come back and try to commit any crimes again."

No, I mean transfer the violent felons directly to their capitol cities. Put them on a plane fly them down and drop them off. If their cops want to meet and put them in their prisons, if not put them back on THEIR streets and off of our tax burden. Do you know what this country could do for it's people with 10 billion more dollars??? We could fix Social Security, we could assist the states with their programs for the under insured, the list is endless.

I've posted about this several times ... including the recent verbiage from the back of a fake social security card ... with which, incidentally, the illegal in question used to successfully apply for medical assistance benefits, which were cancelled once his status was discovered. Just for this guy's treatment alone ... 11 days on the first admission (not including the costs of his having bitten off a chunk of the thumb of one of my coworkers, as well as the costs of medical treatment for the patient), then he was readmitted for attacking his family and stayed with us for another 8 days. 19 days of treatment at $1,000 day that will not be covered by any insurance or by the county which funds treatment for the indigent mentally ill. I don't expect him to show back up with $19K in a greasy paper bag, either. I have no doubt that he'll be back, and he's also not the only person we see without a genuine Cartas Verdes. This is part of why we won't be getting raises this year. Again.

Could this be why medical costs are climbing twice as fast as anything else? :eyebrow:

I would consider it a contributing factor, among other things.

How does everyone know TheMercenary is posting lies? He cannot even touch a damning number. His solution: ignore those realities. Hold TheMercenary's feet to that fire and he will run. He has to. 1.8 million are necessary; cannot be found elsewhere - unless we take in the 2 million Iraqi refugees that America created. But again TheMercenary let slip his fears and hate of others. Those 2 million Iraqi refugees are also evil. We must keep them out of America – as we did with so many Vietnamese boat people.

Crops rotting because TheMercenary advocates wacko extremists laws rather then fix a problem. 29,000 permits when 1.8 million are needed means one who fears anyone of a different color, race, or religion must protect those wacko extremist restrictions.

Why do we have an immigration problem? Notice how TheMercenary will do anything to avoid reality - America desperately needs those 1.8 million workers. People who pay taxes (withheld in their pay) and never get a refund because they are immigrants - therefore enrich governments. Just another fact that TheMercenary forgets to mention. People who mostly avoid all social services for fear of being caught. Just another reason to maintain wacko extremist restrictions; to pervert the rights of 1.8 million necessary workers. Notice how he also forgets to mention that illegal immigrant workers mean even more government funds - not less.

How does that explain the 16 million already here, tw? Your numbers say we can send 14 million home and you still won't have to pay more for your precious veggies ...... or is it fruits and nuts?:p

I just noticed the "mostly avoid social services", talk about blatent lies, as the NUMBERS presented in this thread have already proven.

Come on, you really think that a million migrant workers are all using fake Social Security numbers instead of just getting paid in cash? A very small number of illegals have proper paychecks and have taxes withheld (under someone else's valid SSN--which, incidentally, doesn't mean the government gets the money for free, it just means someone else gets the credit and the extra refund); the vast majority are paid in cash.

He is talking out his ass Bruce. Ignore him, he has no plan.

TW why the personal attacks? You don't like the message do you. Facts are facts. Illegal immigrants are breaking the back of our economy. Many aspects of our society have integrated thier role in field work and other jobs where employers get out of paying fair wages and insurance to legal workers, sure enough. We need to establish a firm policy and get these people on a work visa program where everyone is documented and monitored for compliance with our laws. All the rest need to go and go now. All illegal felons need to be kicked out and sent back to their country of origin now. These people are feed off the hind tit of our societies social programs and the are talking entitlements away from legal residents who deserve them. They have no rights under our Constitution. Illegals go home, come back when you are fully registered. There should be NO free rides.

What a load of crap. Employers do not withhold taxes from their pay if they a re illegal. Where the hell did you get that little ditty??? Are you illegal??? Taxes withheld and then passed on the the government??? You want us to believe that an employer is going to withhold taxes, send them to the govenment so they can tell the govenment that the are employing undocumented workers??!?!?! are you off your rocker. No one is going to do that and no one does it.

Ok lets compromise, 1.8 million go on an guest worker program immediatly and all the rest go home including their families, grandmothers, aunts, uncles, and brothers sisters cousins. That would be fair. And then get their employers to start to pay for their health insurance.

Illegals work other jobs too, not just on fields.

Also, even though I would guess that illegals are paid in cash (no idea), they still have sales tax and that so isn't like they are getting away with everything. This is also the reason why we should encourage them to become citizens. They already have jobs so if they become legal citizens, we will be able to tax them fairly.

I don't want them to become citizens until the do all the things currently required by the system. I want them to be guest workers. A sales tax is not a replacement for income tax. I wish it were. And I wish all I had to pay was the current sales tax and not tax on my earnings. Fed, state, medicare/medicade, and sales tax. Ad valorum tax on cars, and other toys. The list goes on. They get to send all those earnings home out of the country and out of the economy. There is no comparison. None.

Actually, at their wages they wouldn't be paying income tax even if they were legal. And they do pay sales tax and property tax (via rent). And, as mentioned before, the ones with fake SSNs pay payroll tax.

For starters, TheMercenary, you DO know that advocating that the government interfere in business by making the businesses not hire illegal immigrants is the very definition of not-conservative, right?

Make up your mind. Are you conservative or not?

What we did (I grew-up working for a company the used illegals) was worked several illegals, up to ten or twelve, under one fake, sometimes real, SS# and hid most of what we paid them, so only a tenth or less of what we paid them would show and get taxed. Hell, then only half the time.
Health ins. LOL!!!!
I know why it is so bad because I have been in it first hand. If we had to find and pay legal workers decent wages we would have and could have. That we could not have is a lie, it is that simple.

Then TheMercenary wants wacko laws removed so that 1.8 million farm workers can work legally. But that is exactly the opposite of hate posted by TheMercenary previously. Why the sudden change of heart? Is extremism that difficult to maintain? Or maybe TheMercenary wants it both ways?

Meanwhile, this nation has 1.8 million illegal farm workers because it only issues 29,000 visas. Illegal immigration is not the problem. The problem are the same laws that also leave 2 million 'American created' Iraqi refugees with no place to go.

Problem is not the illegals. Problems are laws that people such as TheMercenary want.

Meanwhile what does America do with more immigrants that wacko extremists Americans created. One in five people now in Jordan is an Iraqi refugee. America created them. Instead, our wacko administration dumps our refugees onto other nations. We should be taking in 2 million Iraqis - if a compassionate conservative was not lying.

WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER 14 MILLION, tw?:eyebrow:

From the IRS, maybe? Look up ITIN on their website. Millions of immigrants have them. Our own government estimates that BILLIONS of dollars are paid in taxes by undocumented immigrants.

Did you get that article you posted from NewsMax.com? That's like me posting an opinion piece from Mother Jones. And excuse me if I don't trust any numbers that come out of the "Federation for American Immigration Reform"--they aren't exactly unbiased.

You're complaining about 'your' tax dollars paying for this and that, but what do you think would pay for all this 'action' you're calling for?

Last I checked, money that any worker earns belongs to him/her, to do with what he/she sees fit. Undocumented immigrants are far from being the only workers who send money out of the country, anyway.

I don't blame them. They are working with what they got. The only way to solve this is to find a way that will help both of us, which doesn't seem like the kind of answer America is looking for right now.

I am NOT a conservative on each and every issue. I will not and I don't think most people are pigeon-holed into this and that. I want the government to hold all businesses that hire illegals collective feet to the fire.

I think, generally, America does want that. They just don't rant and rave about it. :)

In many jurisdictions, employers are required to have SS and other tax information for employees. Phony numbers are necessary to get a job and pay withholding tax. The illegal immigrant never gets that withholding back.

We even had the scandal of undocumented nanny's. Employers who don't withhold money from their employees can be prosecuted which is why government makes so much more money on illegal immigrant workers.

Poor fellas.

:stickpoke

Which is why we must double the numbers of illegal immigrants. Oh. There's 2 million American created refugees. Good. More illegal immigrants. Deficiet solved.

Can we eat them for food? :shotgun:

WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER 14 MILLION, tw?

He stated he wants it to be 28 million. Maybe he is illegal or hires them for his business. It is cheaper for the business to do so. A huge savings on anyones bottom line.

The 1.8 simply demonstrate a similar problem that all 28 million will have because too many of us fear rather than act like Americans.

One in three Silicon Valley companies is founded by Indian and Chinese immigrants. What is their largest problem? Why are so many moving operations out of America where possible? America so hates all immigrants that these companies cannot even obtain correct forms to save their people from immigration agents. Remember, it is the immigrants (legal and illegal) that are both some of America's most productive workers AND the source of most future productive workers. So what do we do now that we promote hate and fear? We even drive out of America the high tech standards conferences, research, etc simply because less productive 'citizens' and an equally dumb president would promote myths and fear.

Problem is not the immigrants - legal and illegal - that so many citizens want to drive out (intentionally or by ignorance). Problem is the citizens so fearful and so full of myths (ie they have come for the welfare) as to undermine America's future.

How to solve America's immigrant problem? Get rid of silly restrictions and make them legal. But then government will have to pay tax refunds. Better to promote hate.

What is a more common reason for immigrants who leave America voluntarily? America is too hard. America demands too much work. The immigrants that leave go back to countries where life is easier. But again, those who *know* using myths will completely ignore this reality.

The illegal immigrant problem is really hate promoted by extremist wings of political parties. As was demonstrated in one mid west state, when illegal immigrants were driven out, that entire part of the state then went into recession. Finally the residents demanded Immigration agents leave – so they could save their economy - rehire illegal immigrants. That history has also been repeated in Europe. Realities that those who promote hate and fear also forget to learn.