The Cellar

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-   -   Sexual history doesn't matter? Who would marry a porn star? (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=12034)

Trilby 10-17-2006 04:43 PM

No! Wait! I'm divining noodle's response to my post (my mean, UNchristian-like post...measured as it is...)

:lol:

There. That's what he thinks.

noodle thinks we are all lost until we embrace his own very specific version of morality.

yesman065 10-17-2006 04:48 PM

Undertoad -:notworthy
Where is the "hammer hitting the nail" smilie????? Cuz you TOTALLY nailed it!!

BigV 10-17-2006 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha
It is Brianna. It's just that men are now comming to accept that they have less power and virtually no control anyway. ;)

If by "just now" you mean since I got married and had kids, then, yeah.

Aliantha 10-17-2006 06:57 PM

lol...that's funny BigV. Of course that's not what I meant. ;)

Aliantha 10-17-2006 06:59 PM

In fact, any bloke here who doesn't think he's a 'sally' is 'deluded'. :D

*Now where did I put that big huge dildo and my whip*

lumberjim 10-17-2006 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna
vessel for your sperm.

let us consider this phrase on it's own merit.

Flint 10-17-2006 07:10 PM

cum-drum

Aliantha 10-17-2006 07:11 PM

Is that a 'boat' to put your 'se[a]men' in?

marichiko 10-17-2006 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwmcaw
I see the contradiction in your statements and I hope you do to.

I never implied that sex was immoral unless people where married. However, sex for sex sake is intemperate. It’s irresponsible. It cheapens the intimacy that is supposedly the purpose of sex.
It isn't about adult choice its about honesty. Would you engage in sexual intercourse if it was stated right up front that the episode was pure recreational and the pairing will dissolve immediately afterwards?

I think nobody would honestly say yes given those terms because you cannot abstract sex. The risk of pregnancy and the responsibility that comes with it, no matter how slight, plays in the background of your thoughts. I never met a person that engaged in sex without SOME emotional component, unless they where buying a hooker.

Its that emotional component that seeds the moral question.

No, I don't see the contradiction in my statements, but its been an off day for me around the Cellar, today, so feel free to enlighten me.

I don't have to worry about pregnancy, anymore, but I still don't say "yes" to a man whom I've just met. In my younger days I had a couple of one night stands out of curiosity as much as anything else, and I decided the experience was not for me. When I get into a relationship with someone, it usually lasts for a while. I was married for 20 years, but before that I was engaged for two years, so I wasn't a virgin when I married.

If some people want to have sex just to have sex, and both parties know beforehand and agree, I have no problem with that as long as they are both consenting adults. Live and let live is my motto. :cool:

Ibby 10-17-2006 08:32 PM

By the way, to answer the thread title, yes, yes I would. I dont like the thought of my girlfriend having sex with other people, nor do i like the thought of other people watching, but if she were to decide thats what she wants to do then I would support her, because I love her and it would still be worth it, because I love her for who she IS, not who she does.

Aliantha 10-17-2006 08:55 PM

ok...now I'm confused about you Ibram. First you're gay but now you have a g/f. Are you batting for both teams??? ;)

Ibby 10-17-2006 08:59 PM

Not gay, bi. You've got it there. I'm more on the gay side of it when it comes to personality, and in fact I would be unbelievably gay if I didnt love the womenfolk so much.

Aliantha 10-17-2006 09:03 PM

Well geez...I was just joking with that post, but thanks for your honesty Ibram. Sorry if I seemed to be prying. It definitely wasn't my intent. :)

Ibby 10-17-2006 09:09 PM

Nah, its cool, I like telling people. Makes me feel freeeeee!

Aliantha 10-17-2006 09:10 PM

Hmmm...if I told people I was bi I wonder if it'd have the same effect. Mind you, hubby keeps telling me I'm too expensive, so maybe I should try it. ;)

DucksNuts 10-17-2006 10:01 PM

I'm torn - I kinda have a little crush on noodle coz he's hawt, but I would probably scare the bejesus outta him n that amuses me :D

Clodfobble 10-17-2006 10:59 PM

Or the bejesus in him would scare you, one of the two. :)

DucksNuts 10-17-2006 11:11 PM

:biglaugha this is true

mrnoodle 10-17-2006 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna
noodle thinks we are all lost until we embrace his own very specific version of morality.

You're still trying to get me to say this, but I haven't, and I won't. You have a beef with Christianity, and I'm happy to be your whipping post if that's what you want. But I hope you tire of it soon, because I'm running out of alternatives to "stfu".

if you follow my version of morality, you will be in dire straits indeed. I do have an idea what I'm supposed to strive for, but I'm not very good at it yet.

mrnoodle 10-18-2006 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DucksNuts
I'm torn - I kinda have a little crush on noodle coz he's hawt, but I would probably scare the bejesus outta him n that amuses me :D

I really don't think I'm much of a looker. I've got a huge misshapen head and no upper lip. But your compliment is greatly appreciated :blush:

As for scaring me, good luck. I hang out with death metal bands. Wearing a "Satan sucks" tshirt from a local biker church. Plus they're all gay for me.

I fear nothing but spiders and mimes.

lumberjim 10-18-2006 12:28 AM

and me. you fear me. admit it................all of you

yesman065 10-18-2006 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle
I do have an idea what I'm supposed to strive for, but I'm not very good at it yet.

Wow that's a really profound statement - my response may not belong on this thread, but my bro & I were discussing that last night. As a somewhat religious person (God and I have an understanding) I find it incredibly difficult for me to hold up to my beliefs. To be able to do what I think I should all the time - its rather confusing and I'm rather confused (as you all know) but interesting nonetheless. Lately, I wonder if its that way for ev-1 or is it just me?

Flint 10-18-2006 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065
Lately, I wonder if its that way for ev-1 or is it just me?

:fsm: shall smite thee with the noodley appendage of wrath, oh foul chat-speaker.

footfootfoot 10-19-2006 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

I fear nothing but spiders and mimes.

Weird. cos I fear speeders and memes...

limey 10-22-2006 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065
Wow that's a really profound statement - my response may not belong on this thread, but my bro & I were discussing that last night. As a somewhat religious person (God and I have an understanding) I find it incredibly difficult for me to hold up to my beliefs. To be able to do what I think I should all the time - its rather confusing and I'm rather confused (as you all know) but interesting nonetheless. Lately, I wonder if its that way for ev-1 or is it just me?

Without wishing to speak for anyone but myself, you are not alone, yesman!

KinkyVixen 10-22-2006 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065
Wow that's a really profound statement - my response may not belong on this thread, but my bro & I were discussing that last night. As a somewhat religious person (God and I have an understanding) I find it incredibly difficult for me to hold up to my beliefs. To be able to do what I think I should all the time - its rather confusing and I'm rather confused (as you all know) but interesting nonetheless. Lately, I wonder if its that way for ev-1 or is it just me?


I'm right there with ya too yesman.

yesman065 10-23-2006 07:12 AM

So amidst all our banter what are we supposed to do? Is it simply chalked up to "A weakness of the flesh?" I cannot believe that its that simple. I strive to be a good person and a faithful friend, co-worker, partner, father, and so on. My reality seems to say that I am, and the people around me also tell me that, but in the quiet of the night I often wonder. Its not that I do anything horrible or lead a double life - its just - Ugghh I can never really explain it in words - its just a feeling I guess.

limey 10-23-2006 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065
So amidst all our banter what are we supposed to do? Is it simply chalked up to "A weakness of the flesh?" I cannot believe that its that simple. I strive to be a good person and a faithful friend, co-worker, partner, father, and so on. My reality seems to say that I am, and the people around me also tell me that, but in the quiet of the night I often wonder. Its not that I do anything horrible or lead a double life - its just - Ugghh I can never really explain it in words - its just a feeling I guess.

But isn't it that feeling that keeps you trying to stay up to the mark? And what if it were easy? What difference would that make (we appear to have effected a successful threadjack here :D )?

mrnoodle 10-23-2006 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065
So amidst all our banter what are we supposed to do? Is it simply chalked up to "A weakness of the flesh?" I cannot believe that its that simple. I strive to be a good person and a faithful friend, co-worker, partner, father, and so on. My reality seems to say that I am, and the people around me also tell me that, but in the quiet of the night I often wonder. Its not that I do anything horrible or lead a double life - its just - Ugghh I can never really explain it in words - its just a feeling I guess.

That vague, unsettling notion that there's something more? That "goodness" is a real thing, but might be unattainable by any amount of purely human effort? When God starts talking to someone, that's commonly the first part of the dialogue. Talk back. Make sure your mind's open first, then ask what's going on. If you're listening, an answer will come.

Notice I didn't mention religion.

yesman065 10-23-2006 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle
That vague, unsettling notion that there's something more? That "goodness" is a real thing, but might be unattainable by any amount of purely human effort?

Thats an intersting point - I wonder if that was supposed to be the design all along. Then again maybe not?? Thats where my question is coming from.

KinkyVixen 10-23-2006 04:43 PM

I think that all the wondering, worrying, asking is pointless...we'll never know the true design because we weren't the ones that designed it. If you know right from wrong, and you know what you believe, go with that, do your best. Do it with the right intentions. The motive behind what you do says a lot more than the actual action itself, in the end at least, and probably weighs on how you actually feel about yourself afterwards.

yesman065 10-27-2006 09:12 AM

I found this article today - perhaps it explains BM's position. Since he hasn't been posting - I'll do it for him (even though I TOTALLY DISAGREE)

Outrage as Muslim cleric likens women to 'uncovered meat'
By RICHARD SHEARS


A Muslim cleric's claim that women who do not wear the veil are like 'uncovered meat' who attract sexual predators sparked outrage around Australia yesterday.

Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali, the nation's most senior Muslim cleric, compared immodestly-dressed women who do not wear the Islamic headdress with meat that is left uncovered in the street and is then eaten by cats.

Politicians including Prime Minister John Howard, community leaders and a large number of Muslims condemned the mufti's comments amid calls that he should be deported to Egypt, his country of origin.

He has since been forced to apologise for his remarks.

In a Ramadam sermon in a Sydney mosque, Sheik al-Hilali suggested that a group of Muslim men recently jailed for many years for gang rapes were not entirely to blame.

There were women, he said, who 'sway suggestively' and wore make-up and immodest dress "and then you get a judge without mercy and gives you 65 years. But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he said, referring to the women victims.

Addressing 500 worshippers on the topic of adultery, Sheik al-Hilali added: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it..whose fault is it - the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."
He went on: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab (veil), no problem would have occurred."

Women, he said, were 'weapons' used by Satan to control men.

yesman065 10-27-2006 09:13 AM

Not sure if that belongs here, but I thought I'd post it and see what you guys/gals and others thought.

Stormieweather 10-27-2006 10:30 AM

Quote:

Politicians including Prime Minister John Howard, community leaders and a large number of Muslims condemned the mufti's comments amid calls that he should be deported to Egypt, his country of origin.

He has since been forced to apologise for his remarks.

The majority of Muslims disagree and find such remarks offensive.

Not that much different from the 'she was asking for it' or 'no really meant yes' defense used in many US rape cases.

DucksNuts 10-27-2006 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065
Women, he said, were 'weapons' used by Satan to control men.

:haha:

Pie 10-27-2006 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065
Wow that's a really profound statement - my response may not belong on this thread, but my bro & I were discussing that last night. As a somewhat religious person (God and I have an understanding) I find it incredibly difficult for me to hold up to my beliefs. To be able to do what I think I should all the time - its rather confusing and I'm rather confused (as you all know) but interesting nonetheless. Lately, I wonder if its that way for ev-1 or is it just me?

Self-doubt and self-examination are what keep us from becoming monsters. Really, it's healthy.;)

Aliantha 10-28-2006 02:54 AM

My husband sometimes thinks Satan is in control of me.

wolf 10-28-2006 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065
Women, he said, were 'weapons' used by Satan to control men.

It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.

Luckily, I'm up for it.

bmwmcaw 10-28-2006 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065
I found this article today - perhaps it explains BM's position. Since he hasn't been posting - I'll do it for him (even though I TOTALLY DISAGREE)

Outrage as Muslim cleric likens women to 'uncovered meat'
By RICHARD SHEARS


A Muslim cleric's claim that women who do not wear the veil are like 'uncovered meat' who attract sexual predators sparked outrage around Australia yesterday.

Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali, the nation's most senior Muslim cleric, compared immodestly-dressed women who do not wear the Islamic headdress with meat that is left uncovered in the street and is then eaten by cats.

Politicians including Prime Minister John Howard, community leaders and a large number of Muslims condemned the mufti's comments amid calls that he should be deported to Egypt, his country of origin.

He has since been forced to apologise for his remarks.

In a Ramadam sermon in a Sydney mosque, Sheik al-Hilali suggested that a group of Muslim men recently jailed for many years for gang rapes were not entirely to blame.

There were women, he said, who 'sway suggestively' and wore make-up and immodest dress "and then you get a judge without mercy and gives you 65 years. But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he said, referring to the women victims.

Addressing 500 worshippers on the topic of adultery, Sheik al-Hilali added: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it..whose fault is it - the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."
He went on: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab (veil), no problem would have occurred."

Women, he said, were 'weapons' used by Satan to control men.



1) Don't presume to speak for me.

2) The outrage towards those remaks come from the P.C. police.

3) Any father tell his daughters this same self-evident fact; If you dress like a slut you'll be treated as one. The analogy by the cleric may have sounded as if it condoned the assualt but reality it did not. It only, and poorly, made the conduct of the women an issue to be considered.

Date rape, morning after regret, substance abuse that leads to moral and ethical breakdowns in behavior on both indivuduals should be equally weighted in the degree on guilt and fault.

Thats what I think this cleric was saying. As for the devil comment, well, I've heard may women make the same observation of their "sisters" in gender. I think every women would admit that the power men give them in the sex department is intoxicating. But like any power, it can move, and is subject to gross coruption.

9th Engineer 10-28-2006 09:17 PM

Great, so we have the decision equivalent of "he was robbed while waving a gold chain, whos fault". Let me start this with the required statement of 'I do not condone rape under any circumstances whatsoever'. Now that we have that on record can we address the posibility that dressing provocitavly inherently raises the risk of sexual assault? It makes sense.

Clodfobble 10-28-2006 11:53 PM

What is provocative, 9th? According to the cleric, it's swaying suggestively, wearing makeup, and not wearing the Islamic headdress. By that argument, American women must be sexually assaulted in vastly higher numbers than Muslim women... but they aren't. It would seem clear that the risk of sexual assault is directly proportional to the men's lack of self-control, not the dress of the women.


Going outside of my house inherently raises my risk of being mugged. That doesn't make it my responsibility to stay indoors.

9th Engineer 10-29-2006 11:24 AM

Right, now I'm not saying it causes anything. It's a risk, and I want to acknoledge the fact that it can be a stupid risk without using some forsight. Again, it's like saying that wearing a really expensive suit and a Rolex in a bad part of town is a stupid thing to do. In most places there's no problem, and it certainly doesn't take one iota of culpability off of the muggers.

Aliantha 10-29-2006 10:54 PM

Where I live is quite hot most of the year and women commonly wear fewer clothes than in other parts of the world. A big part of this is due to the humidity. Why should women sweat like pigs just because some men think it's unseemly for them to show skin?

Elspode 10-30-2006 12:05 AM

Using Muslim clerical logic, there should be about fifty rapes per Pagan festival each year. Lots of nekkid womens there. I'll let you know when we have our first one.

Aliantha 10-30-2006 12:06 AM

If every woman in Australia was raped because she was showing flesh, there'd be no unraped women here.

rkzenrage 10-30-2006 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha
My husband sometimes thinks Satan is in control of me.

I have asked my wife the same thing.:eyebrow:
Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf
It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.

Luckily, I'm up for it.

No one has to do it, nope... I'm fine. I don't need people who don't play by basic rules of logic mucking with the life. Control and anguish are not the same thing BTW.

Ibby 10-30-2006 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode
Using Muslim clerical logic, there should be about fifty rapes per Pagan festival each year. Lots of nekkid womens there. I'll let you know when we have our first one.

Y'know, maybe the cleric was just saying that his brother muslems are weak-willed?

Sundae 10-30-2006 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram
Y'know, maybe the cleric was just saying that his brother muslems are weak-willed?

Or that they are a bunch of alley-cats?

Still, if all men really want is some fly-blown piece of manky scrag end I suppose they're welcome to it. I may not still be vacuum wrapped, but I'm fresh baby ;)

bmwmcaw 10-31-2006 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl
Or that they are a bunch of alley-cats?

Still, if all men really want is some fly-blown piece of manky scrag end I suppose they're welcome to it. I may not still be vacuum wrapped, but I'm fresh baby ;)


"fly-blown piece of manky scrag end "

Can you post a pic of that or a link to a pic? I'm dying to see what the hell that is. Is it any relation to Nip-tack-paddy-wak-give a dog a bone?

yesman065 10-31-2006 07:05 AM

BM, it would most likely be the female version of YOU. Try looking into the mirror and you shall have your answer.

bmwmcaw 10-31-2006 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065
BM, it would most likely be the female version of YOU. Try looking into the mirror and you shall have your answer.

I know what you are but what am I?

Are you 5 years old, you pussy whipped momas-boy?

yesman065 10-31-2006 02:32 PM

Its really sad when someone picks a verbal argument with you and you have to explain your insults because they are above their comprehension. Uh, you better try pickin on someone else. I'm outta your league. Try one of the girls - oops, never mind, you already got your ass kicked by them too. Hmmm, Perhaps there is a kiddie blog somewhere so at least you could have a fightin chance.

Aliantha 10-31-2006 06:39 PM

Two year olds can be very annoying...

morethanpretty 10-31-2006 07:37 PM

I think that their are certain risks involved with how you dress and where you are. If you are in Deep Ellum (club district of Dallas) for example w/out a full force of body guards girls, expect some trouble and don't forget your pepper spray. But if your in your house or a low crime area you have less chance of being accosted no matter how you dress. The clothes you put on are not the real root of the problem but they can persuede a man to go after you rather than some other woman. Rape is a man's problem b/c (normally) they are the sick bastards who commit it. Rape is a woman's problem b/c (normmally) they are the victim. Both men and women have a responsibility to prevent such an occurance.

morethanpretty 10-31-2006 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha
Two year olds can be very annoying...

My two year old cousin has better come-backs than BMW. She's a wicked little smartass...runs in the family. so does insanity and alcoholism, but sssh

Aliantha 10-31-2006 07:43 PM

Well here's the double standard.

A man walks around without a shirt on and is sexualised by a woman and it ends there.

A woman walks around without a shirt on (or with a skimpy top on) and is sexualised by a man and it ends there, except if the man is a COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOT who thinks that because she dresses that way she must be hot to trot.

bmwmcaw 11-01-2006 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha
Well here's the double standard.

A man walks around without a shirt on and is sexualised by a woman and it ends there.

A woman walks around without a shirt on (or with a skimpy top on) and is sexualised by a man and it ends there, except if the man is a COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOT who thinks that because she dresses that way she must be hot to trot.

Is that what happens in your country, cause I'm on my way, skirt on, to get "sexualized."

In the USA women are predominately the target of sexual assault due to the all the points about the sexual differences I have espoused on this board. You can’t have a double standard when the situation is unequal to start with. Different situation will have different outcomes and standards.

Aliantha 11-01-2006 05:36 PM

You'd rather be sexualised by men than women?

As to your second point: the issue is that the simple fact that there is a double standard in modern western society is what is wrong. When women are expected to go out and earn a living and support their lazy arsed husbands etc, I'd say there's a huge problem. Not the fact that a woman should do that - because it works both ways - but that a woman can still be expected to do so and also be the wilting little wallflower that you picture women as being.

That's the point.

bmwmcaw 11-02-2006 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha
You'd rather be sexualised by men than women?

As to your second point: the issue is that the simple fact that there is a double standard in modern western society is what is wrong. When women are expected to go out and earn a living and support their lazy arsed husbands etc, I'd say there's a huge problem. Not the fact that a woman should do that - because it works both ways - but that a woman can still be expected to do so and also be the wilting little wallflower that you picture women as being.

That's the point.

"You'd rather be sexualised by men than women?"

Respect? From you! LOL

You can't even quote your own writings accurately, least interpet mine, and can't understand what your reading.

Sorry to hear about your lazy arsed husband. Better luck next time. Reach out to Brianna, she's got a lot of experience flipping guys.:D

bmwmcaw 11-02-2006 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha
You'd rather be sexualised by men than women?

As to your second point: the issue is that the simple fact that there is a double standard in modern western society is what is wrong. When women are expected to go out and earn a living and support their lazy arsed husbands etc, I'd say there's a huge problem. Not the fact that a woman should do that - because it works both ways - but that a woman can still be expected to do so and also be the wilting little wallflower that you picture women as being.

That's the point.

To your other point, there is no double standard. I will not regurgitate every iota of details again. Reread my responses and statements and come back and refute them.


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