Prescott additional info - seems there are a number of politicians lining themselves up to take over the Deputy PM position should it become vacant, including former foreign secretary Jack Straw. I guess they may know more about his future situation than we do....

The governement has again come under fire for producing more hot air than action in respect of its commitment to deal with illegal immigration.

Against the PM's promise to automatically deport* foreign criminals, it's been revealed that the Home Office has already decided not to deport over 200 of them.

On top of this the current Immigration and Nationality Directorate chief has declared to a House of Commons home affairs committee that it would take at least a couple of years to get the immigration service back into good shape, admitting that there were staff trainingb issues to overcome on top of everything else.

She had been given six weeks by Home Secretary John Reid to turn around the department. Seems she may need a little longer....

*my god - I split an infinitive - see what all these Americans are doing to me...!

Naah , we just wish we were allowed to drink six bottles of Champagne a day like he was .

Sorry Cyclefrance , the above was in reply to Elspode at the end of page 1 . Elspode had asked if the British longed for a re-incarnation of Churchill . I have only just realized that there are several pages to the subject . I shall now read them . Abject apologies .

*Smiles* I haven't enough time to read the hwole thread, however I read most of the first two pages....Very informative, I must say.

Just to show the other side :) There was one area of the country which bucked this national trend considerably, I am glad to say. In Yorkshire, we had an overall good showing for labour candidates and a poor showing for conservatives and the BNP (far right neo nazi) lost three seats; two in Bradford and one in Calderdale.

The reason I am glad about this is that I am a newly elected Labour Councillor :P

Hi Dana

Congratulations on being elected as a Labour Councillor. I occasionally do some work for one of our councillors, and she certainly puts in the hours - not an easy job - it certainly requires a lot of dedication.

As to the voting patterns, hmm, well this may have something to do with the way government cash is channeled arguably northwards - at least that's what that unbiased rag the Daily Mail would have us believe - so it must be true....:right:

Whatever next? While Gordon Brown, John Reid and others call on Civil Servants to sharpen up their act and deliver better value (some say holding them to blame for all that's gone wrong), David Cameron heaps praise upon the Whitehall workers and government departments that control and run our public services. All seems the wrong way round - we won't know who are the ones to vote for at this rate come next election.... Socialist Conservatives or Capitalist Labour...?

That's a shame - we could have started a nice little rumour going that John Reid is an alcoholic!

SINCE you brought it up...:) I do have a question for you. I heard on BBC last night a couple of words which I knew, but was startled a little by the pronunciation. Would you attempt to spell, phonetically, how you pronounce these words, please?

corollary


military


(also heard this morning, but from an American voice, these interesting words)

inculcate

(sorry, work distracted me...anyway...)

your pronounciation please?

I have been known to have people in tears with laughter at some of my pronunciations, so you have been warned:

corollary - (not so easy) core-awe-lurry


military - mill-it-airy (some pronounce mill-it-tree)

inculcate - inn-cull-kate (someone's bound to tell me it should be inn-cull-sate)

I beg to differ .

'corollary' should have the accent on the second syllable ' ke'rOlari . ( can't do a proper phonetic rendition on this computer, unfortunately)

'military' should ALWAYS be 'mill-it-tree' , never 'airy'

As for 'inculcate' . It is obviously to do with Kate , and nothing whatsoever to do with being sated .

Thank you both.

I heard core-RAWL-ler-ree and did a doubletake at the radio, like looking at the radio in the dashboard would help me understand... I pronounce it CORE-row-larry, precisely 3.5 syllables.

The second word gets plenty of airplay these days, and I have heard both versions, mill-it-airy and mill-it-tree. The second one feels pretentious rolling off my tongue, but I can hear it without the doubletake.

YAY! Congrats, Dana! You beat Radar into office! The last I heard, you were teaching immigrants the British tongue.

So what's a Councillor?

Hey Mar! How's you?

Councils are our local government machine. They are comprised of elected members ( councillors) who represent a ward (in my case about 7000 people). Each ward has three councillors who often also work a day job. The council I serve on has 51 councillors. People can call their councillors and get advice, try to lobby for stuff and get their support in various matters. A councillor can ask questions and generally act as an mediator between their constituents and the local machinery.

They also make decisions around various local matters particularly budgetary concerns and so on.....but since the councils are made up of various party representatives the make up of the executive branch varies. In my council I am in an opposition party (labour) and the controlling party is the Conservative party...They get the Cabinet posts, they are the portfolio holders for the main directorates (Health and Social Care, Childrens services, Regeneration etc etc)

We as one of the opposition parties managed to broker a deal which gave us a strong role in the 'Scrutiny Panels' which hold that cabinet to account....*whew*

Policy is set primarily through the Cabinet but major decisions such as the annual budget needs full Council approval (a majority of the 51 councillors)

:) Bit longwinded and not sure how clear that is, but there ye go.

Oh and I got made redundant from the teaching job :P I was intending to leave in August anyway, so it wasn't as bad a blow as it could have been.

I had actually moved into a different department before I dropped off the radar screen; was teaching native speakers with literacy and numeracy issues (not to mention some fairly extreme social problems often)
Still, it was fun whilst it lasted and I have kept in touch with a couple of the students (am accompanying one to the dentist tomorrow in fact:P)

Ref your teaching background, my wife's an EWO down here - expect with your area of teaching you may have had close relations with your areas EWOs - specialist needs and learning difficuties feature regulalry in my wife's work (sadly also so do child abuse, drugs and bullying...)

Interesting that the government is pushing its 'respect' campaign heavily today. The core of what's behind it is something most feels is lacking and missing in today's society, but I do fear that this will end up as yet another well-meant initiative with more emphasis given to the headline than to its implementation.

Unfortunately 'respect' means different things for different people so that's not exactly helping to start it off on the right foot - more like it's starting on several different feet!

It's a bit like the other headline today where there seems to be a lot of back-pedalling about the Home Office 'Don't Moan - Take Action' banner which although it sounded as though it was encouraging people to 'have a go' and take action themselves against anti-social behaviour, we are now being told is really about reporting such behaviour to the authorities rather than turning a blind eye.

Too many opportunities at the moment for the government to trip over their own feet it seems, and that does nothing for the credibility of their initiatives. Which in turn demotes the efforts of those who work really hard at trying to make the improvements in the areas being targetted.

*Nods* I agree wholeheartedly Cycle. For some reason we seem to be absolutely full of taglines and 'initiatives'. Unfortunately we seem fairly low on actual ideas and initiative.

The one thing however that I would say is worth shouting about is the 'Every child and young person matters' strategy. The whole idea of bringing all the agencies and bodies that deal with children at every level and in every area under an umbrella, which focuses on the wellbeing of the children concerned is, I think, a step forward.

When I first heard about it, I thought it was another of these ill conceived but well meaning strategies that the Govt is so fond of. When I looked at it a little more closely though, I could see a lot of potential there. Certainly, the way it is being implemented in my own council gives me heart.

Agree with you there Dana - do you suffer from the ill effects of flexi-time working though - one of the insufficient resources issues (amongst many other time-stealing activities)?

My wife and most of the people and departments she has to deal with in order to provide the necessary cover for children - her own department, social services and legal in the main - find that this often creates a delaying effect. Trying to maintain the necessary dialogue and more often than not meetings is hindered because individuals are trying to balance their contract hours (insufficient to do the job properly) with the demands placed upon them. My wife regularly has a store of several days of 'Flexi' which never seem to reduce - time she and others do take off to reduce the pile just leaves fewer days overall to do things and creates gaps in availability which just results in a slowing down of progress.

It can take weeks and months to get to a point where there is meaningful progress - this must deliver a negative message to both parents and children. Sometimes when dealing with older children, nearing school-leaving age, the process cannot be completed in the time available before the child leaves school. Obviously I'm on the periphery with this info - bordering on hearsay - but these are the sorts of issues I pick up from our conversations...

The Home Office and Home Secretary (John Reid) are this week's main punch-bag.

A recent life sentence for a sex attacker, who abducted and sexually assaulted a 3-year old girl, could end up as short as 5 years. Reid was criticised in turn for criticising the judge fwho handed out such a lenient sentence - but it turns out that the reduction to 5 years is only made possible because of legislation passed by the government last year.

Now today it has been revealed that a total of 53 'lifers' convicted since year 2000 (out of a total of around 500 in all) have already been released.

Another nightmare scenario for Mr Reid....

The European Union and where it should be heading is raising its head again.

Geoff Hoon, Minister for Europe, is calling for a fresh debate to decide what direction Europe should be taking. Most are worried that there has been a debate about where Europe should be going for the last 30 years....

Amnesty International considers Britain ' a partner in crime' for its involvement with the US arranging secret flights of terror suspects (known as 'extraordinary renditions') around the world. AI says Britain has adopted a 'hear no evil, see no evil ' approach to the CIA flights.

Ideas are afoot to grant 500,000 illegal immigrants amnesty.

Seems that this could generate £1 billion in taxes - always provided that the 500,00 own up and are in a position, earnings and employment-wise, to pay taxes.

Concerns that an amnesty solution would open up the gates to several hundred thousand more arrivals seem to be fading - must be all those £ signs such a prospect causes to fill the eyes of those in support - blinding them to the downsides of such a move (strains on social services, NHS, housing, police, etc, etc.)...

This is growing in the States as well. We call it a wraparound here, not to be confused with a wraparound aide. Every six weeks or so representatives from all the support agencies get together to make sure everyone it pulling in the same direction. It makes sense to rationalize the services the kids and parents are getting, the money is being spent so why not spend it sensibly?

"Wraparound" Yah, I've heard it referred to as that here as well. It has a lot to recommend it.

A few things to catch up on...

In no particular order, first item:

David Cameron was given the opportunity to write an article in the Sunday Times yesterday. Being Father's Day here in the UK he expounded on the importance of the family - all very touching and sincere, and not a hint of jab at New Labour for having policies that have eroded family values (oh, yeah....?)

New Labour are reported to be so disheartened at their falling ratings in the polls that some are already hinting that, come the next election, they will gladly accept defeat - it might be good to have a period in opposition - to get back in touch with friends, electorate, and that currently absent pastime - sleep.

Buried in all the reporting on the World Cup, Labour is again under fire for publishing controvesial plans at a time when few would take notice. A number of items here, but perhaps the most controversial is the plan, first mooted in 2004, to give local authorities the right to sieze homes that have been left empty for six months, following the death of the owner

The local authorities would be have the right to acquire the properties, refurbish them and then offer them for rent, retaining the income this generated.

Although the intention is for this to be a way to deal with housing that has been empty for a long period and unlikely otherwise to be usable, the fear is that the legislation permits the ruling to be applied to properties in good condition and where relatives who inherit such properties are just finding it difficult to complete matters within six months.

There seem to be a lot of grey areas and cloud that needs to be removed so that the legislation matches the job it is supposed to do, and not anything more.

Unfortunate news today for Gordon Brown, Chancellor of the Exchequer, and would-be pretender to the PM's crown when Tony eventually steps down ('when' in this context brings on a instantly massive yawn). Poor Gordon's Scottish ancestry is coming home to haunt him.

Owing to a strange but nevertheless beneficial misalignment of interests (for New Labour, anyway), Scottish MPs may vote on legislation that affects England, but English MPs cannot vote on legislation that affects Scotland. This encourages Scottish voters to help Tony get through contentious legislation that he might otherwise fail to do.

Voters are now seeing this as a reason not to have a Scottish leader of the Labour Party. Dissatisfaction of the above state of affairs is causing too many voters to question Gordon's credentials - purely on the grounds of nationality - apparently 52% of the electorate questioned said they would not like Gordon as PM.

Ooops - looks like you may have held off a little too long for your own good, Gordie...!

It's being reported that Tony will get two 'Blair Force 1' planes. - the first a fully equipped long distance traveller and the second a 15-seat executive jet for shorter hops.

Cost of operating these leased aircraft is estimated at over £12 million a year, with the intention for this cost to be met by the users - likely to be Tony and family, the Royal family and the Ministry of Defence.

Anyome know where I can get hold of some government business of the defence variety on one of the Caribbean islands, like Antigua..?

The Tories are spending a lot of time and effort highlighting measures they would introduce to re-build the family which seems to have been demoted as a result of the way Labour has structured its benefits and taxes over the years of their governement.

The Conservative Party are promising benefits for all - not just on a selective basis - and also want to include minority groups in their plans. David Cameron delivered a speech at the Commonwealth Institute yesterday outlining Tory plans.

Unfortunately the fact that he and his colleague MPs in the Tory party had voted against Labour's family-friendly measures a few years back didn't help him gain the response he had wished - quite a few of his audience were sceptical about his newly acquired 'social' interests

The extent of Labour's tax grabs was highlighted yesterday when it was revealed that every household had seen its tax burden increase by 45% since Labour came to power. The figure equates to an annual increase from around £14,000 per household in 1997 to something over £20,000 now.

Income Tax receipts had risen by £8 billion in one year to £131 billion in year 2005-2006.

Based on current legislation, some of which takes effect in coming years, predictions are that the tax burden per houshold will increase by another £2,500 per year by 2010.

I'm waiting for one of em' to just get loaded and say "ta' heck with it, we want it all... you people don't really neeed any of yer' money...".

Just an idea...

Sometimes the political cartoonists explain the issues in a single image far better than words ever could - so now and then I'll pop in a suitable and worthy example.

Here's one for starters


.

'Tough on crime - tough on the causes of crime!' - so goes the government mantra.

So today we had the embrassment of a 69 year old woman jailed for 3 months for refusing to pay her Council Tax (local government charge for local services), teh refusal being brought about by the fact that the street where she lives has transformed into a breeding ground for crime and drugs.

The woman had previously been commended by the Home Office for the work she had done to help tackle these problems in her locality.

No chance of a reduced sentence either because local government convictions don't qualify for such treatment.

Probably a good thing for the government that a mysterious benfactor paid her tax bill later today. Apparently if a third party offers to pay up the council just has to accept their payment...

Must have pressed the wrong button on the old calculator...

Seems that the Home Office has underestimated the number of leagl migrant workers coming to England 30-fold.

Much loved local borough of Slough (it's a town near Heathrow Airport) was shown by government figures to have recd 300 migrant workers in 2004 - but some 9000 new national insurance numbers have been issued there over the past 18 months, of which only 150 went to British nationals.

That certainly helps with planning of resources....

Cyclefrance, I am oddly cheered by your postings of the UK's political mishaps. I mean, you guys are our ancestors or cousins or something. The current mess in the US is not the American People's fault! Its sort of an inherited disorder or whatever. We're all just one huge dysfunctional family. Best wishes from across the pond! ;)

Over a month has gone by, wow! - still, I have been busy with the Somme cycling and website. And I was sort of hoping that political life in the UK might have improved - fat chance! Anyway, you deserved a break from all the negative vibes material for a while - but now that's all over!

Hot off the press (leaving aside our strong stand (I don't think) on the Israel/Lebanon situation at the moment...!) - we're gonna have another 150,000 East European immigrants arriving next year. Government's finally woken up (or at least admitted) that instead of being the economic work-force that creates wealth for Britain, they are more likely going to add to the increasing burden on our services - social benefits, free-health, subsidised housing and education.

Guess I'd better prepare for another tax increase then, along with the rest of the decreasing horde of Brits that actually work and support themselves, and constitute the only true source of tax revenue that pays for all this...

So how many times is Tony Blair going to the White House to support George Jr - and come back empty handed. When does he learn the concept of 'give and take'?

Oh, he's taking it alright.

I used to think that Tony's main agenda was to secure a 4 year EU presidency, and that his 'relationship' with GWB was a part of his game-plan to show that he was the best person equipped to deal with the US super-power.

Now I'm not so sure about that and think it more a case of wanting George to like him, and also believing that provided he achieves this then a softly softly approach will be the way to gain concessions from him.

It's strange because he shows himself to be stubborn and intransigent when he gets his teeth into anything over here. At the end of the day a lot of this is down to his inability to see deep into the consequences of his idea solutions. Too many of his grand-scale initiatives have failed to deliver yet still he goes on repeating the same mistakes. He has no real depth and that's the real problem.

It's more or less a case of 'crisis, what crisis?' so far as the Israel/Lebanon situation is concerned. Loads of rhetoric and promised of urgency when everyone knows that a solution is about as close as Christmas 2007 - at the earliest.

Blair proclaims he expects an immediate ceasefire within the next few days to be forthcoming via a UN resolution and then like GWB, proceeds with the more urgent business of packing his holiday suitcase and leaving our wonderful country in the clumsy hands of John Prescott.

Still, Blair assures us that he will be in close touch by phone. Wonderful.

If ever anything stinks of a behind the scenes agreement to let the Israelis get on with it unabated then this does. I am sure that's the way the Israelis must read it. And if they read it that way it's for sure that the Arab countries do also.

If anything makes you want to scream this does. Such pitiful inaction will surely come home to haunt - probably sooner than later.

And these people were voted in to protect our country and global interests - those that put their cross in the appropriate place to cause this must be feeling pretty embarassed by now. The sooner we get the opportunity to kick this lot out the better. I'm ashamed to be British.

Sums up Blair's interests:

Blair is finally buckling under the pressure - there are news reports today that he is delaying the start of his holiday by at least 3 days in order to progress a UN resolution for a cease-fire, coupled with a second for an international force that France leads.

Doesn't sound like the sort of thing that can be accomplished within a few days - so we will have to wait and see how this one progresses in the short-term timescale being advocated

So Tone's on his way to the Caribbean for his hols (well, almost - he's still trying to revise the UN resolution that didn't work), having done his bit to cobble together a UN resolution that satisfied the French and USA but not those that really mattered.

John Prescott has been left in charge with strict instructions not to meddle with the Middle East situation while TB's away - one has to ask on this occasion, could he do any worse...?

Meanwhile, Tony still insists that the UN resolution route is the way ahead to solve the present crisis - this in spite of the fact that there are countless preceding UN resolutions that have been ignored across the years...., so why should the next one make any difference?

Immigration is still out of control and now we are warned that with the growing number of immigrants, the increased demand for services (benefits) to which they are entitled will cause local taxes (council tax) to rise for those that work and pay their tax bills.

That should help promote good race relations...

Government targets for hospital stays and high bed occupancy are causing patients to be sent home earlier than might be best for their condition. Result: hospital stats look good, but patients are having to be re-admitted to ensure that they have the right amount of time to recover properly.

Re-admissions have risen nearly 30% 2006 last quarter, compared to 2005 last quarter.

Still, the occupancy stats look good....

We're used to bad political news being 'buried' when there is something more ey-catching grabbing the headlines, but yesterday the 'burial' syndrome got a little bit too much of a reality check.

Seems one female labour MP, Ms Rosie Cooper, questioned whether Margaret Thatcher deserved a state funeral. I mean, come on, dear, she's still alive and kicking!

They'll be writing her obituary for consideration next....

Not really Blair's day (again)...

Having delayed his holiday departure to deal with the UN Resolution for an Israel/Lebanon ceasefire (bit of a waste of time there!), it seems that Tony was in contact with George Bush on Sunday about the current crisis over the terrorist plot to bomb aircraft in flight.

With the country even now on its highest terror alert ever, his own MPs are now questionning why he still went on holiday when there was such a potentially catastrophic terror plot about to be exposed.

Let alone that he was prepared to leave the country in the charge of John Prescott in charge at such an extremely dangerous time.

... not that John prescott is taking that much interest

He failed to attend the first two meetings of the Govt emergency response committee anyway, and John Reid (Home Secretary ) is the one whose been asked to delay HIS holiday until Blair returns.

Prescott is said to be 'incandscent with rage' at accusations he is being sidelined - well I suppose that's something...

The first I saw of this story was a headline in the Telegraph which read something like "No State Funeral for Thatcher" - I thought, blimey, the old witch is dead and I missed the chance for a party! Had to scurry into work to check t'internet & was most disappointed.

Of course the fact that at a national level, immigrants on average bring in more tax than is spent supporting them, is conventiently left out of these reports. As is the fact that we passed a variety of laws preventing Asylum Seekers from engaging in paying (and tax paying) work until they get status. We'll let em work for charities of course.

The whole thing has been whipped up out of all proportion. The media loves a good scandal and nothing gets the great british public as excited as a good solid reason, to noisily hate outsiders. Politicians of either side of the divide, know this and pander to it.

Three days ago I was delivering leaflets in my ward (advertising a streetsurgery) and I was stopped by a lady in her mid to late 70s. She informed me that she wouldn't be voting labour any more cause we are letting in too many foreigners.

"Its not right," she said, "People gettin their bags nicked by bloody kosovans."

"Oh," says I, "That's awful, did you have your bag stolen then?"

A pause...."No, not me, but I know people who have"

another pause, "an the police told us. They said. there's a gang of em snatchin handbags in Town. Kosovans."

"Oh, that really bad, "I said, "and they're definaterly Kosovan?"

"An anyways, there's too many of em. I went into town and I could hear 'em jabberin away. It gets to where you feel like you're the only one speakin english."

" Really?" I said, "Now that surprises me. I mean, I go in town qute a lot and, yeah I've heard a few people speakin in some Eastern Eurpoean language but only ever a few. Most people are usually speakin English. Maybe I'm goin in at the wrong times."

"And there's always trouble. Them lot down parkinson lane. (Note: we have now moved on from Kosovans to the resident Pakistani and Afghan community) Always avin riots and causin trouble. All that anti-social behaviour"

I nod sympathetically and say yes, it is a bit of a worry, but then again we have quite a few problems with the youngsters in this area too. Anti social behaviour and gang violence.

"There's a gang down by that shop. I've seen them just hangin about intimidating older people as they go in. Maybe it's a lack of respect amongst younger people of both our communities?"

"Yeah well," She gets to the nub of her argument, "I don't like em. There's too many. I'm not racist, I just don't like em and thats that."

At this point I figured I had wasted enough time exploring the nature of racism and politely made my exit, giving her my card and telling her if she had any problems or issues to raise with the council, just give me a call.

What i find interesting about this is : there was a time that woman's view would have been called racist. Any politician pandering to the 'I just don't like 'em' argument, would have been accused of playing the race card.

Now, we are told by every one in politics, government and the media thatg this woman's opinion should be heard. That's fine, but it seems that now her opinion is the only one that really matters when it comes to immigration.The whole political spectrum is falling over itself to reassure that woman that it isn't racist to dislike an entire people. That it's normal, to be expected and therefore right to view newcomers with mistrust and dislike.

Misconception is one element of a many tentacled problem. Will try to elaborate.

You know when you fill a bath up how everything is OK so long as the water is contained, but if you don't control it and it spills over the top then suddenly you don't have just one result (an overfull bath) unless you are quick enough to deal with the problem, you have the many consequences that this overflowing causes - the ceiling collapses below, the carpets are ruined as are the decorations, the water gets into every nook and cranny causing mould and mildew to proliferate, it may even get inside cupboards containing clothes or food - the list goes on.

This is the problem with so many of our governments half-hearted initiatives. The consequences are never thought through or accounted for and so necessary protective measures aren't put in place.

So it's not just about crime. There's the 'lump' issue with building labour, immigrants being paid lower wages than anyone else which causes them to need extra financial help. The uncontrolled situation also means that there is insufficient planning of resources to deal with these various consequences and the strain that this puts upon the resources that are available be they human or otherwise. The whole system creaks and breaks down.

The immigrants themselves become disillusioned. The overall effect that this lack of control has on the rest of society breeds the intolerance and misconception that follows. Whether we like it to admit it or not religious fundamentalism is also in there somewhere.

Very few people would bear a grudge against people who are trying honestly to better their lot - we all want to do the same, but our lack of proper arrangements causes the imbalances that generate the many problems that continue to arise - we end up letting the immigrants down as much as they put a strain on our resources. We, like any other country have a limited capacity to accommodate - until now this, and the consequences of exceeding this capacity, has been totally ignored. As you say comments that would have been considered racist are now given licence - but it isn't really the racist part that's at the heart of the problem - that's just another one of those consequences.

Our government predicted 15,000 east European immigrants would come here in a year as a result of EU expansion - we actiually recorded 400,000 we know about, plus we don't know how many extra there are that slipped the net as a result of being self-employed, students or other category that isn't recorded. With that sort of inaccuracy how can we expect to have a balanced situation?

I understand all that Cycle.....but here's my point:
The ward I represent doesn't have a large immigrant population. Most of the people in the ward can go weeks or months at a time and not see anybody who isn't white-British. The town as a whole has had a very small influx of eastern Europeans. Very small. Yet they are seen as the problem.

The far right have whipped people up to the point where they fear for their culture. This has been possible because of the constant coverage in the press of the 'immigration and asylum problem'.

You have the figures to show how many people came into the country......do you also have the figures to show how many left? How many who arrived in that first influx, who got so disillusioned that they returned to their country of origin?

Incidentally, those immigrants coming in from the accession countries, are not entitled to any assistance (eg, income support, housing benefit etc) unless they have worked for 12 months first. Most of them have no access to medical care even when they have children.

The problem isn't how much they cost .....we're not footing the bill, nobody is. The problem is that we end up with a large homeless population and a bunch of uncared for people. Meanwhile we characterise them as being a drain on our resources.....yet we channel little if any resources their way.

The worst part of it is that they end up as victims. What's sad is that we see them as a cause and not victims of the problem. If you've any doubts about that, come spend an evening in Halifax and listen to the jokes the pub comedians tell.

The religious side of it, in my opinion cannot be viewed in isolation from our current foreign policy.

The evidence seems to be that immigrants choose to come here, and do their best to assimilate. It's the next generations that feel isolated and disillusioned.

Don't necessarily disagree with you, that's why I said it's in there somewhere. I don't know enough to say what drives individuals to take such an opposite path - it could be a mix of many things - isolation, lack of opportunity, peer pressure, disillusionment, vulnerability, identity - probably more you could add to that list.

I think that's the real problem behind what's happening - that when the system overloads, there are so many consequences it is easy to be drawn in different directions seeking to cure what are individual symptoms of a much bigger and underlying problem. Until that is cured and under control its effects will continue to generate more issues.

I do think the fact that our political landscape has shifted to the right in recent years is also a factor. People are less tolerant than they were. They were becoming less tolerant long before the debacle over the accession countries. Before the kosovans came the 'bogus asylum seekers'. This was being reported as a problem way before it actually was a problem. This isn't a response to high numbers of immigrants, it predates the high numbers by a decade.

I think there is a lot of disillusionment all round and as I said earlier and agree with you in the majority of cases the immigrant is the victim.

Sadly, disillusionment is not selective and so it also spreads to the resident population. Most of those affected on both sides will see this for what it is - bad management of the system - others will quit the country (both immigrants and nationals), and some will rebel. As with the bath water analogy, it is the small amount that goes over the top that causes the most damage - their activity makes the news and is read/seen by the majority with the risk that their view then becomes skewed!

So, David Cameron is back from his hols and the floral shorts are banished to the wardrobe for another year. He must be feeling refreshed (or at least has woken up) as he decide to say something about the terrorist situation.

Having missed the opportunity to respond at the height of the crisis, though, he had to resort to criticising the lack of attention and resources given by the government to fight the threat in the first place. Not quite the damaging body blow one might expect from the leading opposition party, but then he has after all only just woken up and is probably feeling a bit jet-lagged anyway.

Maybe something a little stronger next week...?

A couple of political cartoons about the time of the Israeli/Lebanon war and then Airport terrorist alert:

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Anyone wondering where all the UK National Health Service (NHS) money is going need look little further than here - we have something called PFIs (Private Finance Initiatives) - seems the government has blurred the original objective as these deals now seem to leave the customers (in one case - and the major player - the NHS) with 30+ years of debt that can see the original cost spiral out of control - it seems that quite a few hospital projects have been shelved but the finance cost for these white elephants remains a burden on the NHS.

Well worth reading the articles on the link - shows just how sick the intended source for a cure (the NHS) has become...