you're right - "wanting" to put another person above yourself is a feeling. Choosing to do so is an action.

Love is an action, a choice that we make every day. if we rely on the feeling then we will inevitably move on from a relationship at some point. the warm fuzzies, come and go, depending on life's situations. you can't control that. you can control your decisions and actions.

i choose to love my wife even when she pisses me off royally. i choose to love my wife even when i am stressed at work, the dog peed on the rug, the kid is screaming, and the warm fuzzies are nowhere to be found. i know that if i choose to continue to love my wife that the slow, quiet parts of life will come back around and we will experience the warm fuzzies again. i enjoy on them, but i don't rely on them.

True, breaches of trust are unforgivable. Trust is a material that once compromised, never truly mends.

Agreed also on the terminal nature of failing to put one's partner's needs ahead of one's own.

Several of my committed relationships have withered away when the girl stopped investing effort into the relationship... they fell victim to the logical fallacy that once a relationship reaches a certain point, it is stable and self-sustaining. That's true to a degree, but every relationship will have it's problems large or small, and an unwillingness to resolve those problems (or to even acknowledge them) will erode it away.

Being a non-LDS person in Utah has also added a rather unique relationship-ending circumstance... the "I've decided to become a Mormon and so must you if you wish to be a part of my life" event. God damn those Mormons.

Exactly!! And you are right about choosing our actions. But to try and sustain the 'warm and fuzzy' as you call it thoughout life is impossible. So have affairs. Don't talk for a week. Do whatever you want and have complete freedom. This may mean splitting up. Why would you want to stay with someone if, as you put it, the relationship has 'moved on'. There's plenty of other people who would benefit from your company, and vice versa. You are exclusive to another person, not yourself.

ok, you read what i wrote, but you didn't stop to understand it. you can't maintain and sustain the warm and fuzzy feeling. the harder you cling to it, the more slippery it becomes. you choose to actively love someone. life will always go on around you. the fuzzy feeling will fade at times. you continue to actively love your spouse and the fuzzy feeling comes back. it will fade again.

it is sort of like being happy vs. being content.


happiness is being in a great mood, everything is going well, you're on top of the world. it is a feeling, it will pass. it will return.

being content is understanding that life is good, even when you are having a rough time. it is a decision, a state of mind that you choose rather than whining about the things that don't work or giving up when the going gets rough. being content leaves you open for the return of that feeling we call happiness.

For me the marker is "respect".
And that can be breached by dishonesty, cruelty, manipulativeness, selfishness, distance, disinterest, emabarassment, behavior that demonstrates a lack of respect for the other. When you dont respect your partner or are consistently treated in a disrespectful way, time to reconsider.

That's another trigger for me as well.

It took a while to determine what I thought was 'just him' was a distinct lack of respect for me as a woman, or heck, even as a person.

Nicely put. It's interesting. If the basis of a relationship isn't sex but does involve trust it can not only last a lot longer (honestly that is) but both people the space to change and grow. Of course it requires a truly rare level of trust, respect and understanding.

Er, I was agreeing with you. :thumbsup:

Warch you have to earn respect. And maybe what you perceive as disrespect is actually hitting a nerve. Sometimes when one gets offended it's actually because they're right.

by the way thanks folks.. but the situation resolved itself *sigh*..

trust is still the most important thing to me in a relationship, damn.. after that it get's really tricky the other ones being split my nano-meters.. although love (and that get's to be tricky in trying to define.. simlply put for me though if I would sacrifice my life for theirs... willingly and gladly) anyway.. sorry had a few so my posting might be a little erratic :) well more so than usual!

You're the first person here to acknowledge that love is tricky to define. Yes, it's important to trust that the other person is going to be honest. Are you drinking at 6 in the morning? Or have I got the time thing all wrong again.

and it's the one I mostly associate with 'being in love' I am a fairly giving person, but.. that's when I know I'm over that line. lost.

anyway! in the past I have put up with insane amounts of bullshit. the two basic rules (of course with plenty of footnotes) are it's over if you cheat on me (and the definition of that is not soley physical.)/Lie to me (and no, some omissions are okay, I do it.. if it's not particularly important.. I might not mention the fact that I had 3 beers after work instead of 1.. and in all truth expect the same from others.) secondly violence done out of malicious intent, walk up to me and pop me in the face for no good reason (not that I think I would put somone in that position in any sort of regularity.) then no. buh-bye

and as to the trust angle? I usually will trust them first (to an extent), I mean I wouldn't be a hopeless romantic if I didn't :) and I will try to answer most questions truthfully, although I may not tell you your ass looks fat in those jeans.

I knew it! You've fallen out of love with me, haven't you!?

Every time I think I've gotten myself into a good thing, I manage to fall in love and break it.

well... pastrami! I uh well.. never knew this would last.. I mean I'm uh... sorry.. but... I'm just telling the truth..

(and amen to that breakingnews)

I had my ass handed to me a few years ago by an untrustworthy woman, and still don't have the ability to fully trust the opposite sex. I automatically assume there's an ulterior motive to everything she says or does.

It's my fault, though. The person who stomped my heart was someone who (cough) I was having an affair with while she was married. So, even though she lied about the state of her marriage (she said it was over and they were already getting a divorce), and was lying to me about the fact that she was involved with a third guy (who knew about me, but also believed that she was divorcing Poor Fool #1), I can't really place much blame for the state of my heart on her. I'm the one who walked into a situation I already knew was fucked, and continued with it for 2 years even after I saw the truth.

So, lying is definitely the dealbreaker. That is, if I ever feel trustworthy enough myself or can summon enough trust in others to get in another serious relationship. The options are fairly limited atm, since my newfound blunt honesty is apparently not all that marketable, datewise.

In other words, I will tell you if your ass looks fat in those jeans, if that's the question you asked.