I think Kerry was the winner, by about a 4:3 margin.

I do think he had one ting to do that he didn't get done last night, and that's to convince people that he's actually tougher and more resolute on the WoT in substance. He did it in style: he had Bush speaking defensively several times.

Well, as an undecided voter, this pushed me to Kerry. He clearly was better.


Just kidding. I was already a Kerry supporter, but I do think he was much better. Bush had a couple of good points. I'll give him credit. The whole multilateral versus bilateral North Korea talks was a good score for him, but Kerry did come back to that later by saying that going bi-lateral doesn't mean you exclude China involvement too. I think Kerry realized that Bush looked good on that one point, so Kerry tried to clarify a little. That was the only victory for Bush I saw.

Did anyone else notice how insincere Bush acted when he was talking about his visit to one of the widows of a US soldier and how sad it was for the family? Bush was trying to show a sympathetic face, and was shaking his head like "too bad." He was trying to appear sympathetic and was doing all these mannerisms that he must have thought showed compassion. I was picturing George Costanza from Seinfeld as Bush was doing that. The Seinfeld episodes after George's fiance died and he was with the family trying to act like he was all distraught. The moment didn't serve Bush well. He's a very bad actor, and I found his fake compassion a little offensive.

Also, when Bush was talking about how he stood up for America by not signing the treaty that might result in war crimes charges being brought up against US troops, there was a long pause before he gave his reason why. I imagined that he was going to say that he didn't sign it because he didn't want to be brought up on war crimes charges himself. :) But that was only in my dreams.

Anyone know if it's true that we're building permanent military bases over there? If so, it makes a lot of sense that locals would think that we were moving in to stay - saying, in effect, "you can have personal freedoms, but your government will be a puppet".

It was fairly obvious, those flip-flops wore out
 

I tend to agree with the majority of the commentary on this particular debate. I won't bother to go over some of the wins for Kerry and some of Bush's strongest/weakest moments. The most telling moment for me was both of their final statements. It was the most stark comparision of the two, and it shot down the Bush's camp's contention that Kerry has no positive vision for America. I felt as though Kerry's final statements were positive and uplifting, George Bush's on the other hand were dark and and filled with fear. I came away feeling Bush really wanted people to come away with the feeling that if he's not in charge we're all doomed, to me it was a very dark moment. For a second I'll be honest, Kerry made me feel a little bit better about things in that brief little summation, George Bush just tried to get at my fear.

- Walrus

i understand the reasoning, but along that same line, have germany and japan been puppet nations for the past 60 years. we have troops on the ground in many countries that no one would think to call a puppet government.

I'd like to see the results of IQ tests taken by Mr Kerry and Mr Bush. oh, and I would be against Mr Bush having Mr Cheyney at his side as he takes his....

I was busy at work, so I missed the debate, and the clips I heard on Howard Stern were pretty Kerry slanted because Howard hates W so much. does anyone know if they will be replayed on tv anytime soon?

I listen to 610WIP on my ride home most nights, and lately, G Cobb ( former Lions and Cowboys linebacker) and Dick Jerardi (local Sports columnist)have been having their own mini debate ( two dumb guys arguing politics is always funny). G is for bush, and Dick is for NOT bush, which i think is true of many Kerry voters. That's where I am .....NOT FRIGGIN BUSH!

One of the things that DJ said was that people who are likely to believe that there are simple answers to complex issues are much more likely to vote bush.....ie, the mentally lazy, and those who have actually been paying attention to what the fuck is happening have no choice but to vote him out.

one of the clips I heard replayed was Kerry saying tat after we occupied Baghdad, the only buildings we guarded were the oil buildings....I never heard that before, and I think it is pretty telling.

PS. FUCK BUSH........(George W, that is)

It's quite likely that what you heard on Howard Stern was a fair sampling of the debate. There was only one point Bush made that was good, in my opinion, and that had to do with negotiations with North Korea. If you pulled out any other soundbite from the debate, it would look biased towards Kerry, because Bush was pretty lame. There really wasn't much material in the debate to make Bush look good.

i think the talking heads are all a little disappointed. neither candidate made any memorable gaffes, no new ideas were brought forth, and there is very little there for good sound bytes.

i have to stick by my original summation. the debate didn't change much of anything. Kerry of course, wins on style points, but neither candidate topped the other with substance. the bilateral, multilateral approach to N Korea was the only new info.

in the end i think the debate only served to solidify already held opinions. if you are an ABB person, you probably feel a little better with Kerry because of his hawkish act, his polish, and he stressed that he only has one message. if you are a bush supporter, you probably liked his folksy presentation and his commitment to his core values.

if you are like me, you probably still wish that all politicians could be sent to a turkish prison for a life sentence.

Both those countries were totally defeated. They had no choice,......or religious agenda. :(

What debate? I watched Law & Order, made more sense than the the press release they called a debate.

It really is too close to call. Oaklands pitching should be better but Anaheim has a more complete ballclub.

Well, except for the bit about coming on to the war widow...

:confused:

i watched it all, but i must have sneezed or something because that doesn't ring a bell. what happened?

Bush said he tried to love her as best he could. Similar to when he lamented the difficulties OB-GYNs had practicing their love on their patients.

*groan*