Ahh, political jargon and the Language of the Law.

Agreed. In which case, the answer should be carefully parsed to find out precisely what was said.

marichiko- turn off gomer pyle and see if you can look at a modern military base.
the norms will be different based on the branch of service, but at most bases, the majority of junior enlisted have better living conditions than junior officers did 20 years ago. at most AF bases and many army posts, having a roommate is an unusual annoyance. having 2 is unheard of. yes, there are exceptions, but that is the reality. family housing is being massively overhauled again. (there were a lot of upgrades in the early '90's). enlisted and officer clubs are onbase for cheap entertainment. the messhalls are still open for at least 3 squares/day and it isn't the food they were eating 20 years ago, which is part of why the prices at AAFES locations don't seem as cheap to you anymore. dining halls and the shopping centers are lumped together in a single "0 gain/loss budget" the slightly higher shopping prices pay for better food, better buildings, better R&R opportunities for the troops.

and the biggest benefit of the commisary and BX/PX system are still in place - NO TAX, including liquor, tobacco, and gasoline.

this ain't yer daddy's military.

No, it sure ain't. I'm talking about the barracks in 2004 that Army enlisted men stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado live in. It's the norm to have two guys to a room. The barracks have flimsy walls and you can hear everything through them. The only R&R facilities available on post are the NCO club and a bowling alley. There is a base library which I actually once worked in. Its seriously under-funded and most of the books are 10 years old or more. Mess hall food is still mess hall food. It actually wasn't half bad back in my Dad's time, but the quality seems to have gone down, although you're right, there's plenty of it. I mentioned that cigarettes are cheaper and, yes, so is booze. Drinking is a regular pass time - there's not much else to do on base.

I know all this because I still have friends who are active duty military, and one friend was confined to base for a while, so I'd go up there now and then to offer him a little support (he was a Gulf War vet who was getting massively screwed over by the Army legal system).

Your experiences in the Air Force Reserve cannot be extrapolated for the military as a whole.

i wasn't always in the reserves and i have worked on installations from all the different services all across the country.

like i said - at most bases the conditions are much better than what you are describing. Ft Carson may very well be the armpit of the US military, i haven't been stationed there - but i can tell you that even on the worst posts i've been to, it still isn't that bad of a life, except for people who only focus on the downside of everything.

Just had a thought here...........


Why don't we dismantle the military entirely? There seems to be absolutely no productive use for them and we could use that money wasted on the whole dumb thing to re-distribute within the US. Then everyone everywhere could all join hands, have a Coke and a smile and live happily every after.

Jesus Christ.......I'm a freakin' genius.

as long as we get to keep our own weaponry for use in the upcoming chaos, count me in.

Ehh, Ft. Carson is about the average for an Army base from what my active duty friends tell me. Sure, there's positives to military life, although for the life of me, I can't see where Bush gets off extolling them when he did his best to avoid it all.

By the way, it's easy to be all sunny about everything when you have the resources of 6 planets at your command! :D

Lookout has the resources of six planets? He's clearly been holding out! Do you mean "resources of 6 planets" as in real commodities or are you talking hippie-jive/Age of Aquarius lingo? Like, the dude has awesome planet alignment right now? :ivy:

No points for originality but I completely fucking agree.

Any votes for Kerry or Bush are wasted votes. Actually any vote for Bush is a vote for treason, violations of civil rights, irresponsible decisions with the economy and environment, violations of the Constitution and international law, tyrrany, injustice, spying on Americans, lies, and a vote for the destruction of everything that is great about America....and a vote for Kerry is a wasted vote because it says you want more of the same crap that brought us to the brink of destruction.

Kerry and Bush are two heads on the same monster.

its from the ecological footprint link. i am single handedly destroying the world... although it looks like troubleshooter is doing his part too.

Well, I knew some one was. :earth:

I agree to an extent, but it seems that voting for Kerry is the only way we're going to get Bush out of office. I'm not a huge Kerry fan and I know voting for him is basically a sell out, but isn't it better to vote for Kerry and get someone in office who is at least a little better than Bush?

Define "a little better" please. I want to know what side dishes come with my order. :)