I'll second that, Onyx. If you post something, then change your mind/heart, just make a statement to that effect, don't delete.:)

On the two raped Islamic women, don't their brothers have to kill them now? I read of several instances of that happening.:confused:

I think so. The preferred method is setting them on fire.

The really awful thing is, I've heard of several instances where the women beg to be killed rather than "bear the shame."

I think that translates as a lifetime of abuse and torture.:(

The whole "raped women bring shame on the tribe" thing really isn't Islamic at all. In fact, the Qur'an has a passage <a href="http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=578144">specifically opposing the murder of infant girls</a> as a preemptive prevention for this sort of thing; presumably, and I'm no Qur'anic scholar, that extends to not killing them later on.

It's a pre-Islamic Bedouin-tribe thing. Scapegoat, scapegoat, I know.

Thats a good point Skunks. There is nothing inherently abusive about Islam. In fact if you look at the Quran, much of what is seen as an acceptance of violence against women is when taken in the context of the 9th century an exhortation against violence.

For instance.....there is a part of the quran which has been publicised recently which suggests a man may beat his wife if she is unfaithful to him....sounds awful, but in context what it actually says is, do not beat your wife as a first response.....Try first talking to her, if that does not work, withdraw sex ( as an aside the quran gives both men and women the right to enjoy sexual release within marriage and a woman who is denied that has reasonable grounds for divorce)and only if those things do not work should a man beat his wife. It is an exhortation to men not to instantly resort to violence against their wives Taken in the context of the medieaval era thats pretty radical stuff.....when you consider that at the time there was a rhyme in england which went "A spaniel, a woman a walnut tree, the better theyre beaten the better they be"........At the time when Islam was exhorting men to see that their wives were given sexual fulfilment the women in Europe were being denied their sexual identity altogether and had no rights within marriage. In Islam women have a right to seek divorce in all manner of circumstances.

That said, some of the societies which adopted Islam had a distinctly misogynistic bent and that has fed through into the way they practice their religion.

Why would you beat a walnut tree?

You're the fine woodworker, you tell us! :)

I'm a woodworker, not a woodsmith. :)

Maybe to shake loose all the nuts? Oh! That's the John BIRCH society! Never mind.;)

Hm...I thought the whole burning a woman thing was from India.

And another lil thing that's misinterpreted by the radical islamics: That covering from head to toe. What Muhammed said was that women should cover themselves, because back in his day, so I've read, women went around topless sometimes. He was telling them to put on some clothes, not hide under a tent....

Sidhe

Damn. All jokes aside, thats probably it.