<a href="http://flagspot.net/flags/pl_aw1.html" <a> political prisoners - upside down red triangle </a>

It seems that every group and subgroup had their own symbol.

Niemoller wasnt the only turncoat Nazi, Schindler is another more famous example. Schindler was not a sympathizer but actually a party member and had the unique ability to use his contacts to save as many Jews as he could. Anyway, we've all seen the movie.

I also wanted to add was that there were millions of Christians also killed by the Nazis, but they were not killed in camps.

Though this was a terrible thing, they were not tortured and killed as I remember. IRC they did lose their businesses.

So you're saying that the American people do or did have much of the same complacency toward certain minorities in times of war or crisis as the German people did during the Nazi regime? And that we should see that as a warning to ourselves....that even we, the great believers of truth and justice, fell into the same trap?

I don't know if complacency is the word I would use. Animosity and racial prejudice are more accurate, IMO. The irony is that I read a book about active German spy cells in the US during WWII. In some cases, pro-German sympathizers were given a great deal of freedom. This should not be surprising in a free country, except when compared to the treatment of Japanese Americans.

As for losing their businesses and homes, that is another byproduct of prejudice. It can be very profitable for groups willing to prey on those disenfranchised by prejudice. Anti-Semitism has made many people and institutions rich.

As for a warning, I do believe that we should scrutinize every action taken on our behalf. Secret trials are a very dangerous precedent. I can see a dozen men being so dangerous that they must be tried in secret courts to prevent the downfall of this country. When it approaches hundreds, I'll know that we have entered a very dark place.

Ken Lay Wants Speedy Trail
 

It looks like Kenneth Lay doesn't like the election odds. If he doesn't get a conviction in by the time GWB leaves, he has to hope for a pardon from Kerry.

A presidential pardon for Ken Lay would be political Bush suicide, I think. A lot of Republicans got swindled by the Enron orgy, too, and I'm pretty sure they want their pounds of flesh. I don't think GWB has any admiration for people who are too frigging greedy to swindle people without even a modicum of subtlety.

If Bush gets a second term, I would imagine he'll spend a lot of time trying to get some conservative judges on the Federal benches in an effort to stem the rising tide of judicial activism. Are there any of the less conservative amongst the Supremes nearing retirement time? The prospect of replacing one of them would surely give Dubya an enormous woody.

I agree with the probable grooming of Jeb during a second Dubya term as well. He would be the likely successor to the Bush monarchy. Hell, positioning him for the Presidency might well be the price of his silence over the 2000 election rigging anyway.

Look for the draft to be restored. Politically, not a great move, but I don't see Dubya's offensive anti-terrorism defense backing down any time soon, and that's going to require more young warm bodies. Plus, there needs to be some contingency in case Kim Jong Il or the Iranians go off their nuts. Further erosion in civil rights is a certainty. There will never be a better excuse than terrorism, and a fascist like Bush isn't going to let that threat go to waste (yes, I said fascist. I am unable to come to any other conclusion, based on his flagrant flouting of the parts of The Constitution that don't suit him).

Further relaxation of environmental standards, expanded cutting on government forest lands, reduction in entitlement programs and additional tax cuts for the upper incomes are likely prospects as well.

I'm sure I could think of more, but it makes my head hurt.

Scuttlebutt around Midland, TX (I have a friend who lives there) was that Jeb was to be the candidate and Dubya scooped him.

I was just talking with the Marine recruiter today. He stops in the shop quite a bit.

Draft vs raising the age limit.

The draft would be a real problem, yes, but if the requirements were altered a bit, I think they may not even need it.

There are more than a few relatively fit "slighty over age limit" men in this country that would sign up, if they could. I would rather than re-instating the draft.

If I could get stationed with or near some of my family, all the better.

You may not look around where you are right now and see boatloads of such people but I think there would be a substancial number throughout the US. Enough to make a difference.

As the need for troops increased at the end of WWII, my granpappy was drafted. He had 18 years into a career at the some company....a wife....and 4 kids....and was 36 years old.

My cousin is flying helicopters in active service now...........he's 45, with a wife and 2 kids

I certainly hope that I would be able to join as opposed to drafting someone that truly did not want to go, has kids, life, etc

We'll see how desparate they get...and when.

as it is you can enter the service up to age 35. forced retirement isn't until age 60 for most career fields.

Which is why it would not occur during reelection. If he was on the energy task force, which even the GAO failed to find out thanks to a ferocious White House defense, then he has a lot of leverage. I don't know what he heard, but energy is tied to oil and oil is tied to Iraq so there might be something potentially embarrassing there.

It could be that he intends to trade on his friendship with the President, in which case an early trial would be in case GWB does not win. If he wants to use leverage and has enough information to embarass the president but not to trigger impeachment, that is only good up to election day. With the Republicans in charge and mostly in line, the impeachment bar would be high.

A good portion of this country have turned their brains off when it comes to supporting Bush, so if he gave a nice speech about Lay's family values, the need for compassion, maybe a few hints about a liberal conspiracy, he could muddy the waters enough to slide by. It would certainly be safer than having Lay detail a meeting at which Cheney comes into the room and poses a 'what if we controlled Iraqi oil' question.

Just a thought.

Bush has said he will sign the assault weapons ban if it crosses his desk. I'll give some things he will do if elected (which won't happen) and some things he's likely to do. All of which are nightmares.

WILL DO:

• Sign the FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas) agreement
• Increase Taxes
• Sign the assault weapons ban
• Appoint a conservative USSC member who will likely limit abortions
• Sign the Patriot Act II
• Attempt to pass a no gay marriage amendment (which will fail)
• Break his own record setting deficit spending
• Increase the size, scope, cost, and intrusiveness of government

LIKELY TO DO:

• Invade Iran and Cuba (But not North Korea because they have nuclear weapons)
• Make some kind of new legislation mixing church and state for social welfare reasons
• Re-instate the draft and send more people into Iraq, and into the other wars he'll start
• Become the victim of an assassination. (Ok, this one isn't such a nightmare)

Dear Mr. Secret Service/Homeland Security/Carnivore Monitor:

We don't have anything at all to do with radar. His opinions and utterances are his own and do not reflect the opinions, beliefs, or plans of any other members of The Cellar or it's management.