You have answered your own question.

if you really feel the need to try ...

Start a thread of the type you are proposing on Home Base. See how responses go. It will likely not be any different from any other thread responses, even if you establish groundrules. Especially if you establish groundrules, since you're dealing with a bunch of people who have no problem driving across the lawn if it solves their problem.

No, I can totally understand why she wants her own forum. It's the same reason mobs of people run a blog.

It's not that she wants a forum to discuss controversial topics. She wants a forum to educate everyone else about her views on controversial topics. I'm sure everyone here has had ideas that they think are pretty clever. Sidhe just wants a chance to share her ideas in an environment where she leads the discussion, which gives her the freedom to enlighten everyone with amazingly insightful arguments.

Now, I'm 100% certain that she also believes herself to be open-minded and willing to accept feedback, which in turn she'll allow to shape her belief structure. And while that may even be true, when someone is an elitist... even an open-minded elitist... they believe the following:

- They either know more than you do, or failing that, the things they know are more "right".
- While they fully accept feedback, they are aware that since they're "right" 95% of the time, the chance that you'll be able to educate them is so far outweighed by the fact that they'll be educating you, that it renders it an almost inconsequential consideration.

Now, I freely admit I don't know beans about Sidhe, I don't think I've really read her posts in any thread other than this one. The only reason I believe this to be true is b/c if she wasn't an elitist, then she'd be completely comfortable posting her thoughts/ideas in the already existing (and already visited) forums. What someone enters in response to a controversial idea in the philosophy forum would be the exact same response they'd enter in her forum.

But still, with my (extremely) limited exposure I could be totally wrong about her. In which case I apologize if you take offense, Lady Sidhe, no offense is intended. Socrates is probably the biggest elitist in history, yet people still quote him a few years after his death.

Anyhow. I believe Sidhe to be an elitist. There's nothing really *wrong* with that. I know... because I was one. ;)

*votes no*

Just for the sake of clarifying, my comment about pitching a tent in someone else's yard was an attempt to address the way I interpret the idea of your new forum and not about you personally.

My impression of your idea is that you are creating a Cellar-like forum within the cellar - it was a mild critique of what I perceived to be a missed opportunity to expand the scope of the Cellar (by bringing a new concept for a topic header such as Religion or Paranormal phenomenon or Health. I think that a new forum under one of those header, for example, would actually generate new posts that might not otherwise have been.

It is my opinion that creating a topic header such as you propose merely spreads the exact same number of posts over a wider number of topic headers. In other words, I didn't sense that your proposed topic of "controversy" would really add any new posts since most of the controversial issues tend to show up in one of the first three topic headers already (Home Base, Current Events or Politics).

I'm not trying discourage you from starting a forum - just suggesting that you consider defining it a little more uniquely. But, that's just my opinion and your's is just as valid. Peace ;)

I don't personally think that I'm an "elitist." I don't think I'm always right. However, I DO always try to get the facts before I offer an opinion...it's always a plus to be as well-informed as possible. And it wouldn't be only me starting threads. I have no problem at all with anyone putting anything there that really annoyed, surprised, shocked, etc. them.

The truth is, I just thought it would be fun to have my own forum here and that it would be interesting to post topics and see what kind of feedback I got in regards to the opinions I posted, especially with this group. I like to debate things with informed people. I like to watch the evolution of thoughts during debate. And it all would be in one place.

I mean, if it's really THAT big a deal, then just say, "I don't think you should have your own forum because (a) you haven't been here long enough, (b) you don't have a totally new topic that isn't discussed somewhere else, (c) you haven't posted enough, or (d) insert your own opinion here.

I won't be shattered to the core if I don't get the forum. I just saw "user-hosted forums" listed, and thought I'd like to have one to use as a strictly debate forum, because I find debates stimulating and have a lot of opinions I'd like to throw out there.

Often, when controversial topics, or topics that aren't "PC" are tossed out, people avoid them or get offended. I don't take debates personally, and I find it difficult to locate people who feel the same way. People would know right off the bat that if they're easily offended, NOT to bother going there to be offended. I like controversial subjects because people really get into them, on one side or another, and you can always learn something new about opinions and why people hold them.

It wouldn't be a place for flaming...it would be a place to discuss topics that people find absurd, annoying, offensive, or the like, without getting pissed off and going into a personal attack. I get really aggravated when people start making personal attacks because they don't agree with one person's opinion. In my own forum, I (presumably) would be able to discourage that by deleting flames, and ultimately end up with a good roundtable wherein people could throw out absolutely ANYTHING and know that there will be a spirited, but civilized, discussion about it. And like I said, it would all be in one place.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it...


Sidhe

that place is called the cellar.

(a) (b) and (c)

Why not start a topic instead of whining about people not starting topics that are sufficiently meaty for you?

(yes, whining)

I set up the poll, people commented, and I answered them. I wasn't aware that that's now considered "whining."

Sidhe

Aww crap, just set up the forum for her already!!

I'd read it.

Look, everyone....I really didn't intend for this to become a bitchfest. It's not crucial enough to fight about, you know?

Hell, I like to argue as much as the next person, so long as it's kept friendly. But that was what the forum would be for, not this thread. It seems that people are getting miffed, and that wasn't why I put this poll up, you know? I put the poll up so that the majority would rule, pro or con, not to provoke resentment of any kind.

Sidhe

Hey, I'm not against the idea of the forum at all. I just don't see the *need* for it.

The only difference you describe between a thread in your forum vs a thread in any of the other forums is that you will delete posts that you deem as a "flame". Every other point is a non-issue. If someone can't take the "ultra-controversial" subject matter of a thread they tend to migrate away anyhow. Even so, if someone gets their feelings hurt why should that concern you? They should consider it a test of faith in whatever ideal they were having questioned.

And I don't really understand what you mean by having a non-PC thread "tossed out". I can't recall a cellar moderator removing any thread based in intelligent discussion, no mater how non-PC.

All of the points you use to describe the forum you intend to start... sounds pretty much like the rest of the cellar already. I think all you'd really do by starting your own "controversial forum" is limit the number of people that would participate in those discussions. Sure you may get a small following, but what about the vast majority that wouldn't want to deal with most of your subjects, but then one rolls along that they'd be able to provide something really insightful. By being out in the open you might pick up a few flames, but you also maximize your chance for everyone getting a shot to add something. Learning to ignore the trolls isn't a hard skill to pick up quickly.

Basically what you're proposing is a sub-forum who's sole purpose is to provide a place for people to have intelligent debates.... on a forum that was founded as a place for people to have intelligent debates. If you found a real niche that wasn't covered elsewhere, then I'd back it. But like I said, while I'm definitely not against your forum, I would't support it until I see a real need for it.

*puts on his double post hat*

Ah-ha! Yes you did, BUT! You pulled an old politicians trick. You didn't ask, "Should I get a forum? Yes/No?"

Your only choices for answers were, "Yeah, it can't hurt", and "I don't like controversial subjects"... C'mon now, you're trying to manipulate people's sense of pride. I'd like to vote no... but to vote no I'm saying that I'm not interested in controversial subjects. Oh the inner turmoil!! ;)

It's the same thing political extremists do when debating the war in Iraq...

"What, you don't support the war in Iraq?? You mean you like Saddam killing babies? You monster!"

or the flipside argument,

"What, you don't support bringing our soldiers home right away? You mean you like America's sons and daughters getting killed on a daily basis??"

Ah, the joy of word-games.

[edit] As a kinda PS... maybe I was unclear or worded it wrong in my 'elitist' post.... an elitist doesn't think they're always right. They just think they're more right than everyone else.

If Sidhe wants her own forum, I say let her have it. That's what the blanket invitation is for. Obviously Sidhe sees some value in it and I think it's worth letting her have it and mold it into what she wants.

For the last 2 years, I've used my own forum to talk about things that revolve around the Sycamores...I like to think of it as an interactive blog, with hosting provided free of charge by Sheppsie. And while I tell stories and post the occasional poem, a lot of it is Sycapinion. Juju's was similar, though more straightforward than mine. Dave's was essentially a journal.

I enjoy posting to my forum, and I hope others enjoy what I post. If you don't like it, with all due respect, I really don't care. No one is forcing you to read it. So if you don't like what Sidhe has to say, don't read it or post to it. It's that simple.

I don't think I'm more right than anyone else; matter of fact, I LOVE having my opinions challenged. It makes me think about why I hold the opinions I do, and perhaps modify them to incorporate any new, or previously unknown, information that I may get from engaging in the debate.

And we've established that we were going to ignore the extraneous text on the poll and just vote "yes" or "no...."

Sidhe

EXACTLY the point I've been trying to make. Everyone has been trying to get me to pin the forum down to this or that, but I can only give a general idea of what I'd like to do there. Controversial subjects, debate, (and as I'd mentioned before, poetry, since I like to write and read it), and rants that people want to get off their chests concerning anything that pisses them off. The forum would evolve over time, of course. I can't say what it will eventually turn into. I can only give an idea of what I'm interested in starting with.

Thanks, Sycamore.:D


Sidhe

Clcik.

I would like to change my vote to a yes.

I edited the poll and changed the options and changed Tor's vote.