And Democrats are painting themselves into a corner thanks to an extremist - Bernie.

Moderates know that no solution is recommended until a problem is first defined. History demonstrates this.

Long ago, automobile insurance was going the way of health insurance. Did we nationalize car insurance - get the government to pay for it? Of course not. First a problem was defined. Then much later, a solution addressed only that problem. Litigation. Car insurance was no longer approaching $5000.

Industry (free markets) alone could not solve this problem Free markets only work if properly regulated. So government created a new standard (regulations) that addressed that insurance industry problem - no fault insurance.

Bernie wants to solve health insurance by throwing government money at it. He is neither addressing nor even defining problems. His intentions are admirable. But he only want to cure symptoms with money - not address the problems. No different than Trump. What his left wing extremism advocates is different from Trump's dumb extremism advocates. But both only want to solve problems by ignoring the problem.

Also explains why moderates are good leaders. A problem or threat is defined long before throwing money at some magic solution.

I come from a group where Republicans, Democrats, and independents are in equal numbers. Last election, all votes were against Trump. Because these are educated people - not driven by their penis. Even one, who never voted Democratic, voted against Trump. Trump is that obviously bad. But Sanders may force some moderates to vote from someone they hate - Trump. (Or not vote at all.)

Neither left nor right wing extremists represent American values. Concepts, based in first learning facts before implementing solutions, are found among patriotic Americans.

Leaving the informed voters (the moderates) painted in a corner without any choices. And so The Economist, because both Sanders and Trump are bad for America, has this on their cover:

Ahem, what is Putin, chopped liver? :eyebrow:

Oh! sorry

What are you, a Russian bot? Mentioning the Russians to sow division?

What are you, a Russian bot?

Again from The Economist. Putin for President. 24 more years.

Never ask the wrong question:

Re: tw's cartoon
I've seen that around, but from where I sit, you could replace both of them with Bloomberg... I don't think I've had Trump or Sanders screaming into my home about 2020 nearly to the extent that Bloomberg has.

Money talks.


It scales up, too.

Revision: I blame money and "moderates" for our present shit show.

Supreme Court... Citizens united.

But nobody noticed, after Obama got elected the Koch Brothers et al, spent tons of money at state level to capture a bunch of beholdin' Governors and state legislators.

Anyone who throws out solutions without first defining the problem is yelling. Any solution that does not first define a problem insults a thinking person. Only moderates and extremists exist. Extremists push solutions loudly for problems that only exist among the emotional. Loudly to camouflage their missing logical, adult reasoning.

Trump is constantly yelling. So extremists love him. The Economist: Is that a decisive informed solution? Of course not. That is Trump yelling about fictional threats. Yelling because that is what emotion (extremist) adults want to believe.

Fracking is not the problem. Some fracking companies only want to make profits. Just like The Don, they are corrupt. They create serious environmental damage - legally. Ie Cabot Oil in NE Pennsylvania. So lets punish all others because they are Donald Trump corrupt. Yelled out is that Sander's solution.

He cannot bother to first define a problem. He simply wants to throw hand grenades at everything. That is yelling.

Trump never ran a successful company. He routinely stiffs his contractors, employees, and banks. Another extremist with a slightly different agenda. To enrich and empower himself - The Don - at the expense of all others. He is an enemy of patriotic Americans - moderates. One here even lied - said he does not stiff contractors, Trump yells out attacks on others so that extremists will not see he is lying. So that extremists will even deny Trump routinely stiffs contractors.

Bernie does not want to address or define the reason for a massively overpriced health system. He only wants to throw government money at it. As if money solves all problems. Another hand grenade. To solve problems by destroying everything else. He keeps yelling that bogus solution. Yelling because he cannot promote it with deadpan reason - as a moderate.

Obama had one major problem with Obamacare. Wacko extremists on the left (ie Sanders) kept obstructing legislation. That is a leader? Of course not. That is someone similar to Trump. Yelling nonsense rather than working out a solution. Republicans were not obstructing it. Pelosi at one point, under blunt comments from a frustrated Obama, was downtrodden. At one point, sat there looking at the floor without any solution. Because she could not get yelling wacko Democrats to stop obstructing Obamacare. Sanders yells rather than logically, unemotionally, and intellectually first define a problem. He even repeatedly obstructed Obamacare.

What did I see among Sanders supporters at the 2016 Democratic convention. No grasp of reality. They even said the Federal Reserve is a private corporation for the rich. That is the type of person an extremist gets support from.

His fracking and health insurance accusations do not address / solve any problem. Only make things worse. So he yells bogus solutions - as the Economist so accurately parodies. Since that yelling makes him popular among extremists - for the same reasons Trump yells bogus solutions to his right wing extremists.

Sanders is little different than Trump. So bad, that even I must consider voting for Trump. You want Trump to win? Then keep supporting that extremist Sanders.

You want Trump to win? Even the Russians want Sanders - so that Trump will win. That I would even consider voting for Trump tells you how bad (just as dumb) Sanders is.

I do not see Bloomberg or Biden yelling. I see Sanders yelling just like Trump. If I would consider voting for Trump, then you know your Sanders support is self-destructive. You want Trump? Then support Sanders. Even the Russians see that a victory for their man.

At least Bernie's heart is in the right place. That's about all he has going for him (assuming it does not give out again).

Interesting perspective.

Is there a different perspective than this?

"McGovern lost in 1972" --48 years ago?

The time of reformation is at hand. There is no longer a center to aim for. The battle is for how the parties will be defined, to see whether their new form will hold.

Maybe "center" isn't the right word.
The question is, "is the system, as it is, basically okay" or "do we need to change anything we're doing"?

Trump has succeeded at doing a whole new thing, by just saying, "I'm different!" People WANTED that.

The DNC response is to put things exactly the way they were before Trump.

But then, why did Trump get elected? If everyone thought "the system is basically okay" ??

...


eta: how did Obama win? By promising "CHANGE." People WANTED that.