You are right, I should have put a qualifier in there...I'd like to, at a minimum, think that things won't get *worse*.

I need to slow down and take a breath. I'm turning into a Hawk, and I don't mean to, but I've seen *so much* crap about Hussein and his cronies' misdeeds, that I'm starting to feel like we didn't go blow shit up nearly soon enough.

Yeah...you better chill out that war woody. :)

The short anwer is the outcome was right for a lot of wrong reasons. Regardless of any rhetoric, the only people who are going to benefit from any of this are going to be the Iraqi people.

There is a new saying "America bashing is the new opiate of the intellectual". Nothing America does will ever be seen as 'right', and IMO a lot of that stems from the fact that we are a successful democratic, capitalist republic that had the gall to last for 200+ years.

As an aside, I don't think I've heard anything really negative about Spain.

I don't think that this would happen in Iraq. Saddam's entire political regime is made up of members of his family. Nearly every political position is filled by one of his relatives because those are the only people he thinks he can trust. I'm sure there are a long line of Husseins ready to take his place when he dies, starting with his two sons. And nearly all of them are sadistic murderers as well. Many of them have committed horrible acts.

How quickly we forget what was America and the world only less than four years ago. Back then, even when America did not intervene in Rwanda and Brundei, America was still well regarded almost everywhere in the world. Polls throughout the world only four years ago tended to be on the order of 70% favorable towards America. Most especially were opinions of American citizens, American entertainment (which scared too many nationalist foreign leaders), and American culture. Today those same polls now stand about 30% and 40%.

With this president, suddenly everything American is getting ugly - even in Canada. The world did not change. A centrist American president was replaced by a low intelligent war monger manipulated by a right wing extremist group that called themselves the Vulcans. The world was not so contrarian towards America - until George Jr made America so ugly.

Again I refer to a speech given by the Norwegian Foreign Mininster warning the world that George Jr would destroy the Oslo Accords. Since posted, we now know George Jr accomplished just that. He intentionally destroyed the Oslo Accords AND he undermined virtually every US international relationship.

When America's closest allies even sound anti-American - Canada, S Korea, Germany, Mexico, and Turkey - then Americans better start looking inside America to find the problem. What changed? Right wing extremists got their man and their people into power. Suddenly other nations are all stupid Frogs. Only America can be right.

Why did Clinton get something that no other world leader ever received in the UN General Assembly - a 5 minute standing ovation? Because back then, America was lead by centrists. Therefore America was admired virtually everywhere in the world. Only someone as simple minded and extermist as Geroge Jr could destroy so much so fast.

America was once highly admired everywhere. Then we elected right wing extremists into Congress and Presidency. People who have contempt for other world opinions. People with so much contempt for the world that they would launch war against China over a silly spy plane.

I guess this is what I get for voting Nader. Oh well, I hope War and the Patriot Act aren't too high a cost for planting the seeds of real representation.

Elspod said: “I admire your manner when trying to convey your points, Rucita. You are unfailingly polite and obviously firm in your beliefs, but you are off base here, mi compadre. Saddam bad, we kick ass, things get better.”

Thanks Elspod (by the way “mi compadre” is a Mexican expression, not Spanish ;) )

“Saddam bad, we kick ass, things get better”... well, I hope so too, but unfortunately I don’t think so. I think it's much more complicate than that. Well, What is sure is that we only can wait for a bit long time to see what happen.

My apologies for the intercontinental faux pas...no disrespect intended.

By the way, I just wanted you to know that the proper English for this is "Thanks asshole (by the way, "mi compadre" is damn dirty diarrhea water speak, not noble Spanish)." :)

Thank you very much Dave.

Ru, tell your friends at www.culturacontralaguerra.org that el Sycamoro says:

Bienvenido a The Cellar. Espero que usted permanezca aquí más allá de la charla de la guerra y contribuya a las discusiones finas que tenemos aquí. Obviamente, la charla aquí puede conseguir muy calentada ocasionalmente, pero para la mayor parte, somos gente decente. No asuma por favor de The Cellar que todos los americanos están en ayuda de esta guerra. En el mismo tiempo, somos un grupo muy protector, y no estamos encariñados con el Spam. Esta es la razón por la cual el mensaje inicial de Rucita fue suprimido.

Teniendo dicho esto, ¡goce!

Meanwhile, dave says:

Yo tengo un dolor de cabeza.

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=39382

La gente de Cultural Contra la Guerra sentirá mi presencia pronto bastante. :)

Well, don't be too much of a bastante about it.

And you'll be wellcome!

My 30 year old Spanish classes aren't holding up very well...thank the Gods for free Internet translators.