The Cellar - Let's talk about Israel and Palestine...

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- - Let's talk about Israel and Palestine... (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=30292)

That's something that has always stuck with me too...you have folks that have literally grown-up in refugee camps. What kind of life is that?

Neither one is our friend and we should stay out of it.

I'll post this again.

I really don't understand why anyone would want that area as a homeland. I believed the Israelites should have negotiated a better deal about 3,500 years ago

"There is no school tomorrow; there are no children left in Gaza."

Quote:

An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed a warning from another soldier that she was a child by saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old.
The officer, identified by the army only as Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions after emptying all 10 bullets from his gun's magazine into Iman al-Hams when she walked into a "security area" on the edge of Rafah refugee camp last month.

Quote:

The official account claimed that Iman was shot as she walked towards an army post with her schoolbag because soldiers feared she was carrying a bomb.

But the tape recording of the radio conversation between soldiers at the scene reveals that, from the beginning, she was identified as a child and at no point was a bomb spoken about nor was she described as a threat. Iman was also at least 100 yards from any soldier.

Instead, the tape shows that the soldiers swiftly identified her as a "girl of about 10" who was "scared to death".

The tape also reveals that the soldiers said Iman was headed eastwards, away from the army post and back into the refugee camp, when she was shot.

At that point, Captain R took the unusual decision to leave the post in pursuit of the girl. He shot her dead and then "confirmed the kill" by emptying his magazine into her body.

The soldier in the watchtower radioed his colleagues after he saw Iman: "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward."

Operations room: "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower: "A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot in the leg from one of the army posts.

The watchtower: "I think that one of the positions took her out."

The company commander then moves in as Iman lies wounded and helpless.

Captain R: "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

Witnesses described how the captain shot Iman twice in the head, walked away, turned back and fired a stream of bullets into her body. Doctors at Rafah's hospital said she had been shot at least 17 times.

On the tape, the company commander then "clarifies" why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

The army's original account of the killing said that the soldiers only identified Iman as a child after she was first shot. But the tape shows that they were aware just how young the small, slight girl was before any shots were fired.

A Palestinian child is worth less than nothing to some IDF soldiers.

Not for all though - bless the ones who object.

Quote:

The case came to light after soldiers under the command of Captain R went to an Israeli newspaper to accuse the army of covering up the circumstances of the killing.

A subsequent investigation by the officer responsible for the Gaza strip, Major General Dan Harel, concluded that the captain had "not acted unethically".

However, the military police launched an investigation, which resulted in charges against the unit commander.

Veteran BBC reporter, and now an official for UNRWA, Chris Gunness tries to file a report from Gaza after the sixth attack on a UN facility where Palestinian refugees had taken shelter:

This video from 2011 sets out very clearly what Israel's actual aims are for Gaza. It's also a brilliant insight into the experiences of IDF soldiers.

We're going to do this? OK

Quote:

Veteran BBC reporter, and now an official for UNRWA, Chris Gunness

Was BBC, now UNRWA Gaza, how does that even happen? No wait, don't need to ask, he had the perfect resume to get that job. You'd think they would be vastly different job descriptions, but it turns out peddling an emotional narrative is what both those positions are about.

Because what if UNRWA had been doing its job? There would be a lot less for Mr Guinness to weep about. If you're not offended by the emotional appeal maybe you missed this bit of news.

UNRWA investigating 20 rockets found in one of its vacant schools

Quote:

The United Nations is investigating how 20 rockets ended up in one of its vacant schools in Gaza, which are closed for summer vacation.

The rockets were found on Tuesday during a regular inspection by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian refugees of its facilities, but information about the find was only released Thursday.

'Israel has ample evidence that Hamas is using UNRWA schools for terrorist purposes'

They don't even need the IDF to produce dead kids:

Italian Journalist Defies Hamas: ‘Out of Gaza Far From Hamas Retaliation: Misfired Rocket Killed Children in Shati’

Quote:

Italian journalist Gabriele Barbati said he was able to speak freely about witnessing a Hamas misfire that killed nine children at the Shati camp, confirming the Israel Defense Forces version of events, but only after leaving Gaza, “far from Hamas retaliation.”

On Twitter, Barbati, Jerusalem Correspondent for Radio Popolare Milano, and a former reporter for Sky Italia, in Beijing, said, “Out of #Gaza far from #Hamas retaliation: misfired rocket killed children yday [yesterday] in Shati. Witness: militants rushed and cleared debris.”

He said, “@IDFSpokesperson said truth in communique released yesterday about Shati camp massacre. It was not #Israel behind it.”

On Tuesday, the IDF released aerial photos showing how a rocket from Gaza targeting Israel hit the Shati camp, run by the UNRWA, and Al Shifa Hospital, which has become a de-facto Hamas headquarters, against international rules of war.

The hospital was a de-facto Hamas HQ. Hamas bombed it. Reporters were on hand to cry. Narrative complete. Dead Gazans are Hamas' stock in trade and you are the consumer. Don't fall for it because you'll only produce more dead Gazans.

The first two links are from the Jerusalem Post. Hardly an unbiased source.

The third, with the Italian Journalist gives one story - other reporters on the ground give other stories. The Italian journalist's main evidence appears to be that militia fighters scrambled to clear debris. he claimed it was a hamas rocket. Others say they have cleared Israeli shrapnel from the site.

The IDF and Hamas both put out misinformation on a regular basis.

If you really think a BBC reporter would be automatically biased towards the Gazans then you don't watch much BBC. It is and has been for years, pro-Israel.

And just as an aside: if Hamas rockets have been found in UN facilities - that doesn't stop it being a war crime when the IDF deliberately target it whilst it is full of refugees. Hamas using civilians as human shields is appalling. Firing on the humans that make up that shield is also appalling.

Quote:

that doesn't stop it being a war crime when the IDF deliberately target it whilst it is full of refugees

You (plural) can't convince me you're all that concerned with "war crimes" when you apply them so hard to one side. It's just a stick to beat Israel with. But it has a real result: actual war crimes are forgotten. It's all just playing politics now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 905877)

I'll post this again.

I watched it both times. It's well done.

It's got a strong point of view, and as an outsider, I identify with it a lot. But I don't know how much it helps resolve the current situation. Not that anything else does.

It seems that there's going to be a 72 hour ceasefire beginning at 8:00 a.m. local time Friday morning. We'll have to remember that, offer them 72 of something and they'll go for it.

There's no good guys.