Grav, it might be worthwhile to search out additional sources to your questions.
That one (bible.ca) seems a little off in a few important respects.
.

4. Christians are allowed to make friends with non-Christians, but many choose, instead, to villify non-Christians. Do you seriously think that Muslims don't become friends with Christians and Jews?

5. Aren't Christians supposed to follow Jesus' teachings and God's law? Isn't that supposed to supercede man's laws?

I'd venture to say that the "many" in your #4 should be "SOME" or "very few."

4. Plenty of Christians believe you should render unto Caesar what is due to Caesar, but render unto God what is due to God - a bit of tax and service to the former vs lifelong duty, loyalty and obedience to the latter.
Then again, that was said by a man with a Jewish mother.

5. Catholics must follow the dictates of a man in Rome.
The heir to the throne of England could not marry one for years because their influence was considered so against the benefit of the realm and so pervasive.

And don't even start on Mormons and where their allegiance lies.
Or the Scientologists.

Grav, what I'm saying is there are fanatics in every part of life and most especially when it comes to religious views. You can distort aspects of the Old Testament as easily as you can the Koran. Take a walk through Leviticus sometime and wonder if you'd want to give those people firearms training. Or especially rock-throwing practice.

Unlike some (maybe many - I don't know) here I knew many, many Muslims.
No, I wasn't friends with them all. I was good friends some, and went out with them or ate at their houses regularly, because they were simply friends.

Some Muslims I sincerely disliked. But it was nothing to do with religion, it was to do with whether I clicked with them, or if I thought they were dicks - same as with Christians, atheists etc etc. They were from all over the world - Africa, Middle East, Pakistan, although most were second generation in England.

All had different backgrounds and ways of interpreting their faith.
And they all had a preference of Eastenders vs Corrie, Big Bro or nothing, chips & ketchup, chips & mayo, United vs City etc etc.

Yes - all the above are in British terms. Because they were almost all British (I did know some first generation immigrants, although they had opinions on the above too!)

They watched the same kids TV as me.
They went to the same schools.
They grew up and fell in love. And things were hard if they fell in love across cultural borders, same as they were in the 70s and 80s for people who fell in love across colour borders (or religion in N/I) or gender these days.

I'm not an expert on the Islamic faith, but I have been in close contact with it, and it is not evil. People make it evil. As they can do many things.
A Muslim can be an American in the same way a Jew can. Or a Catholic. Or a Communist.
It's about the beliefs you share. The experiences you share. And whether you are prepared to kill fellow citizens about it.

WSS^

Really, beautifully put Sundae.



Whoever wrote that revolting website and the chap refusing to give firearms lessons to muslims on the grounds of them being the 'enemy', should take a look at their nation's armed forces sometime. Can a muslim truly be an American? Go check out the graves of the American muslims who have given their lives in service to their country and then ask that question.

*shakes head*

but but but that ONE from Fort Hood ...

hehehehe


*whaps classicman upside the head*

Thanks for the input, Sundae. But, I felt that way beforehand. I don't really care what religion anyone follows. In fact, I'm to the point I don't really want to know. Personally I don't think you need a religion. I don't think that Heaven will be filled with just Baptists, and no Mormons, or Catholics, or Jews. I think one can worship God without having to follow guidelines set out by someone(s) hundreds or thousand of years ago. There have been more people killed in the name of religion, than probably died from all the diseases in history. I'm just too lazy to give that much of a damn about anything.

I might study up on Islam a little to have a somewhat better conversational grasp on the basics.

My original question (which was lost almost immediately, imagine that) just asked why the guy thought a Muslim couldn't be a true American. The link in Wolf's post gave me what I was actually looking for: What that guy (in the ad) was probably using as a basis for the statement he made. Truthiness don't enter into it. I don't believe everything I read/see on teh interweb.

BTW, I don't have anything against religion...I just don't like people.

Ok, I'm done now, carry on.

:)

I just thought of this:

Scenario: Man walks into a department store, kills 8 ppl cuz he got fired.

The News: "A man walked into a dept. store today and killed 8 ppl."

Notice it doesn't, and won't, say: "A Presbyterian man walked into a dept store and killed 8 ppl."

Scenario: Muslim man walks into a dept store and kills 8 ppl cuz he got fired.

The News: "A Muslim extremist walked into a dept store today and killed 8 ppl."

Every time. I've never heard, I don't think, a murderer's religion so much as mentioned in passing, unless Muslimness was involved.

Baptists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Mormons, Latter Day Saints, Amish (ok, maybe not the Amish), Apostolics all kill people, but, religion is never mentioned.

Why is that?

Now I'm done.

Yes Grav, and it wasn't too long ago the scenario could have been:

Scenario: Man walks into a department store, kills 8 ppl cuz he got fired.
The News: "A colored man walked into a dept. store today and killed 8 ppl."

Wasn't too long ago that it was ...

Scenario: Man walks into a department store, kills 8 ppl cuz he got fired.
The News: "An ex postal worker walked into a dept. store today and killed 8 ppl."

There was that story just this week about the Amish beard cutters.

Fuckin Amish. See if I'm willing to teach them how to cut hair...no sirree

Here's the story, by the way.

I wonder what's the difference between a cult and any other form of religion.

Numbers.


Although seriously, IMHO "cults" are usually built around a single charismatic leader, and disintegrate shortly after their death. If it survives this and establishes itself as an ongoing cultural institution (or highly infectious meme) then I'd call it a religion.