The Cellar - Dec 22, 2010: Ramming Texas

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- - Dec 22, 2010: Ramming Texas (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=24219)

Quote:

Originally Posted by morethanpretty (Post 701403)

... if the animals hadn't been over-hunted in the first place.

Total bullshit. Back up your statements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 701404)

Come on Merc, lighten up.
Do you really think that living in Oregon and being married
to a girl from Montana, I would demonize the "right to hunt" ?

Yep. You just did it.

Quote:

I do have a problem with hypocrisy when it's essentially only the landed-gentry
and the wealthy that can afford the "right".
If you follow the news about "trophy" hunts you already understand what I mean.

Oh, I see, back to the liberal BS of class warfare. Those who have vs those who have not. Typical eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 701404)

This generated about $620,000 in gross revenue to support wildlife research, habitat management and public hunting.

OMG How terrible!

You frigging bleeding hearts are all about the Gooberment supporting your pet projects. See I am more on the side of the Gooberment would never support the conservation projects we support. So you want to take my tax dollars to support your little wart worm in the desert of Oregon, and we want to save the Elk with private dollars.

I don't think I have met anyone who hunts, but not for the meat and most of the time also the hide. I suppose those kinds of people probably exist, but I don't see the point.

I think the program in the OP sounds great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 701447)

Total bullshit. Back up your statements.

From the same link I posted above.

Quote:

Bighorn are native to the state but were extirpated in Texas by the early 1960s.
Texas Parks and Wildlife has dedicated decades toward their careful reintroduction to state lands.
About 1,500 now populate the Sierra Diablo, Elephant Mountain and Black Gap wildlife management areas.
Parks officials aim to place bighorn at Big Bend Ranch within the next several years, said Boruff.

But what is your point ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by morethanpretty (Post 701403)

You expect that they'll stay in the park? Animals don't often understand our boundaries, and are usually given less room than they really need/want.

I think Lamp is saying the oxymoron is that the funding from hunting wouldn't even be needed if the animals hadn't been over-hunted in the first place.

From what I've read, one big problem was diseases they caught from contact with livestock. Is that a euphemism for shot by ranchers? I can't see there ever being enough Bighorns to eat much, and they wouldn't threaten anything, other than maybe chickens.

Quote:

In the late 1800s there were perhaps up to 1,500 sheep in the rugged mountains of Trans-Pecos Texas. However, due mainly to unregulated hunting and diseases from domestic and exotic livestock, Texas bighorn numbers dwindled to about 500 in 1903 and by the 1960s they were gone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 701305)

http://cellar.org/2010/bighorn.jpg

Helicopter tea-bagging!

PA has a similar situation when it comes to Elk hunting but has a lottery system where everyone pays a small fee to enter and a limited but growing number of permits are handed out. They have had great success rebuilding the elk herd with the money raised. The Game Commission has helped bring back a lot of wildlife, beyond game animals, in PA using hunting generated dollars. They also avoid the Texas scene where the richest guy in the room always gets the hunt. That seems like a recipe to build resentment and keep hunting a marginal activity.

Giving an economic value to wildlife may offend some sensibilities but in a place like PA with a lot of private land it helps to have a lot of stake-holders. It isn't much different from what the Costa Rican's have done with eco-tourism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 701404)

I do have a problem with hypocrisy when it's essentially only the landed-gentry
and the wealthy that can afford the "right".

So we shouldn't have any extra taxes or fees for hunting licenses and hunting supplies so that everyone can afford it, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phage0070 (Post 702538)

So we shouldn't have any extra taxes or fees for hunting licenses and hunting supplies so that everyone can afford it, right?

Hi Phage,
Hunters and fishermen do pay taxes and fees, etc., and I have no problem with that. I pay my fair share too.
But hypocrisy comes in when you look at the tiny numbers of "common folk" who get the permits for rare or trophy game.
It's very similar here in Oregon, as in Texas, Montana, Idaho, etc.

Here is the rest of that same quote... I just added the bold type

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 701404)

<snip>

I do have a problem with hypocrisy when it's essentially only the landed-gentry
and the wealthy that can afford the "right".
If you follow the news about "trophy" hunts you already understand what I mean.

Public hunting of bighorn does occur in very limited numbers and the chance for a hunt is highly prized.
[Texas] Parks and Wildife issued a total of 15 permits in 2008-09,
11 of which went to private landowners near wildlife management areas.
Of the remaining four permits, one Elephant Mountain permit was donated to a
Wild Sheep Foundation auction and brought $70,000;
one was a part of the Texas Grand Slam drawing and two were public hunter drawings.

And the results are....

As the lucky winner of this year's Big Time Texas Hunts crown jewel, the Texas Grand Slam hunt package,
Garcia receives four separate guided hunts for Texas' most prized big game animals
- desert bighorn sheep, white-tailed deer, pronghorn antelope and mule deer.

All told, hunters bought 64,759 Big Time Texas Hunt entries during this year's sales period through the Oct. 15 deadline.
This generated about $620,000 in gross revenue to support wildlife research, habitat management and public hunting.

None of that reflects the amount of money donated to conservation asshole.....

@bruce and merc:

Quote:

While herds were probably never extremely large, unregulated hunting and exposure to disease from contact with domestic sheep drastically reduced their numbers soon after white man began settling in West Texas.

Over-hunting played its part too.

There are many reasons for ranchers to hunt them, sure they're not a real danger to their livestock, but they do eat the grass/ect that they want to use for their own animals. I've never tried sheep, but it might taste good, and then you get the added bonus of those trophy horns. They could like destroy fences the ranchers put up, ect.

Link

They could sell the rights to shoot at them as they were dropped from the slings for an extra $50k. I mean, hey...when do you get a chance to shoot a flying bighorn?

Quote:

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

I've never tried sheep, but it might taste good,

Lamb is fantastic. Coincidentally, we just had some tonight. Do you still call it lamb if the animal is full-grown when you slaughter it? Or is that what mutton is?

from wiki:
The meat of an animal in its first year is lamb; that of an older sheep is hogget and later mutton.