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-   Politics (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Indefinite Detention (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=20370)

classicman 05-27-2009 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 568930)
It's on Obama AND Bush.
Not anymore - This is his baby now. Rewriting the laws is 100% on Obama and the ramifications or benefits are also Obama's alone.

Happy Monkey 05-27-2009 02:02 PM
The ramifications and benefits of Obama's actions build on the ramifications and benefits of Bush's. Each are responsible for their own, and both are responsible for the sum. Obama will still be responsible for what he does after he hands the reins to the next president.

classicman 05-27-2009 02:33 PM
I stand by my previous post. As far as rewriting the laws and the rights violations that may ensue - thats all on Obama.

Happy Monkey 05-27-2009 03:18 PM
And as far as incarcerating them for years without trial while claiming that law was irrelevant and the rights violations that DID ensue, that's all on Bush. And the end result is on both of them.

classicman 05-27-2009 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 568965)
As far as incarcerating them for years without trial while claiming that law was irrelevant and the rights violations that DID ensue, that's all on Bush.
Yes that would be correct. Seems to me that Obama is doing virtually the same thing, without the ridicule and outcry from those who did just that to Bush. Interesting indeed.

Flint 05-27-2009 03:33 PM
Hey, if I light a bobcat's tail on fire and throw 'im in your livin' room, and hand you a shovel and a shotgun, but ya ain't supposed ta hit 'im with it, ain't nobody but your momma gonna come cryin' when you throw a bucket of water on 'im and cook 'im for supper. /Dr. Phil

classicman 05-27-2009 03:55 PM
I actually saw a bobcat once! They are pretty big ya know!

Happy Monkey 05-27-2009 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman (Post 568966)
Yes that would be correct. Seems to me that Obama is doing virtually the same thing, without the ridicule and outcry from those who did just that to Bush. Interesting indeed.
And also WITH the ridicule and outcry of those who did just that to Bush. As mentioned pretty prominently in the originally posted article.

classicman 05-27-2009 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 568988)
And also WITH the ridicule and outcry of those who did just that to Bush. As mentioned pretty prominently in the originally posted article.
You mean this???
Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman (Post 568771)
I'm not liking this at all. No, I do not have a better plan, but incarcerating people without a trial or review goes contrary to everything that our judicial system is based on. Innocent until proven guilty, a fair trial and so on.
Bush according to many, broke the law by keeping these people at Gitmo for so long. Obama apparently wants to rewrite existing, or write new legislation so that this can be done "legally." Whaaat?
Where is the ridicule or outcry? Get real.

TheMercenary 05-27-2009 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman (Post 568771)
Oh God this is just getting more entertaining by the day.

Happy Monkey 05-27-2009 10:00 PM
Here's one:


And another:


The ACLU has a strongly worded rebuke and a less strongly worded (or at least less strongly headlined) one.

Russ Feingold says it's unconstitutional.

TheMercenary 05-27-2009 10:03 PM
TPM? is that actually a legit source of original congressional documents?

Happy Monkey 05-28-2009 09:13 AM
Feingold was the source. TPM happened to have the archive I found it on. And since I was looking for people who didn't like Bush and also don't like Obama's detention proposal, I don't see that it matters that much. Are you suggesting that TPM faked the Feingold letter? Unlikely, but even if true, it just puts TPM on the list opposing indefinite detention.

TheMercenary 05-28-2009 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 569149)
Feingold was the source. TPM happened to have the archive I found it on. And since I was looking for people who didn't like Bush and also don't like Obama's detention proposal, I don't see that it matters that much. Are you suggesting that TPM faked the Feingold letter? Unlikely, but even if true, it just puts TPM on the list opposing indefinite detention.
No none of that. I was just curious since people as of late have gotten their panties all in a wad if the source of a link comes from some place other than the Congressional Record. I for one was just curious and I have never heard of TPM.

classicman 05-28-2009 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 569149)
Feingold was the source.
Sorry HM, I thought I replied last night when I was reading this thread. I saw the Maddow piece when it aired, but not the Olberman one. The Feingold letter was wonderful.

Thanks for the links.


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