THE LEANING TOWER OF BABEL
Eeeek. run away. I laugh, I shutter, I shake my head in sad recognition. Not all schools are evil...are they?

that was my solution to my problems when i was young as well. and while i would like to puff out my chest and proudly announce "well, i was spanked all the time, and i turned out just fine!" the fact is that i think i turned out okay was _despite_ being spanked, and not _because_ of it. before my son was born, i felt that sometimes spanking had a place in discipline. the first time i saw him? out the window. im becoming of the opinion that for me, spanking=hitting and i could never hit him. thats not to say im going to criticize those who do choose to spank. as i said earlier, i have no clue the best way to discipline a child. no doubt my decision no to spank will irk my 'traditional' family. 'spare the rod and spoil the child', 'well you were spanked and look at how you turned out'. but really, who cares? hes my kid. maybe ill spoil him by not spanking him, but i think ill take that chance.

thats where it gets hard tho. as his father, its my duty to make sure he does well. i cant passively allow his grades to slip, all the while shaking my head and telling him hes going to regret it. at some point i have to step in, and maybe get angry. while i dont ever want to be too hard on him, i dont want to be too easy on him either. the consequences of that are just as bad. i cant allow my son to sabotage his future by doing stupid things. so while i think its best to stick to positive reinforcement, i dont think i can rule out saying 'look you did this and it sucks. this is why it sucks and this is why im taking your car away for 2 weeks'.

~james

I can't listen to talk radio and hear someone defend spanking without hearing their entire life history behind it. The emotion that comes through tells you: <i>they aren't defending spanking, they're defending their entire life.</i>

I was hit a few times, and mostly out of anger too. (Hi mom!) Luckily there was a general atmosphere of love behind it, which is what prevented it from having a worse effect. Now I'm not qualified to say, cos I'm not breeding and I'm not a teacher, but I would never hit a kid under any circumstances. It doesn't do anything but breed further violence. And it doesn't work like parents who use it think it does. It may shut the kid up, but it's out of the wrong kind of fear.

Then there are kids that are hitters, biters, pincher, scratchers. I know of some who are not mimicing parents, they just do it. Some really violently. Thats a challenge, to redirect that kind of primal aggression in a helpful way (other than just hitting back) Its that freaky nature/nurture thing.

I got hit on occasion. My mom would sometimes hit me on the bottom with a spatula or a wooden spoon. I think my stepdad spanked me all of 3 times. Every now and then, I'd get a whap on the head or arm.

Granted, I'm fine and all that, but I don't believe in corporal punishment, ESPECIALLY in this day and age. You use it, and you're liable to be talking to your friendly DCFS social worker.

Some people call it too soft, but I believe that a child can be disciplined and grow up fine without the use of corporal punishment. Sure, there are times when a child must be punished, but I think it can be done without striking a child. Of course, my qualification is suspect here b/c I'm not having children, but I believe it can be done.

Jumping to conclusions is never good...and having unrealistic expectations is also bad. My mom grounded me once b/c I got a 3.2 my sophomore year of high school. Yep...a 3.2...I wasn't fucking around, just had a couple of hard classes. Lost my car privileges for 6 weeks. At the same time, my high school had sent a letter, saying that I was in danger of losing my scholarship due to a low GPA. My mom threatened to pull me out of the school. I KNEW there was an error on that one, and after speaking to the principal, sure enough, the school fucked up, and everything was fine. I went ballistic, and threatened to move in with my grandmother. I think my aunt talked with my mother, my mom realized that she was being retarded, and we never had an issue like that again.

Other than that weird incident, I got a lot of praise from my parents...they were always proud of my accomplishments. When I got a 30 on my ACT, my stepdad cried...and he NEVER cries.

So in the end, I would say give 'em lots of love, lots of encouragement, set limits, enforce discipline, and learn from mistakes.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I thought I might resurrect this thread considering the impending change in Juju's family.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;My views on spanking are pretty simple. When I was a kid I loved it. I'd do something wrong at school I'd get swats. Then I was free to go back to doing whatever I got the swats for. It was easy, it doesn't really hurt and once it's done you have been officially punished. So it would be improper to do more to you, and to continue to remind you that you're still being punished for whatever would be idiotic. I hated it when my mom signed the form saying the school couldn't spank me anymore. I continued to do whatever I felt like but, the punishments became a bigger pain in the ass. (Obviously not literally) Of course once I established that I didn't mind detention I was free to ignore the teachers/principles again. I still would have preferred swats over detention though...
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;With my own kids I only remember handing out one spanking in the last seven years or so. (Okay, beyond five my memory is shaky) This was about a year ago and my daughter was five. My daughter had been getting in trouble continuously for months about taking off her shoes whenever we were at anyone's home. It's really inconvenient when you stop in to a friends place to borrow, loan or return something and your kids shoes go missing inside of two minutes. So one day I'm helping some friends move into a new place, my daughter is playing with their daughter in a workroom/shed behind the house. There is broken glass from the previous tenants in the yard and around the shed. I had specifically told my daughter not to take her shoes off and even explained why. When it was time to leave she comes out, no shoes. I grabbed her up with one hand and swatted her butt with the other and carried her back to her shoes. I haven't had any trouble with the shoe thing since. Her brother witnessed this and was on his best behavior for a month afterwards, even though he didn't get in any trouble whatsoever.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thus my opinion is that the threat of spanking is good, but use of spanking as a regular punishment is useless.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Also, I'm a big believer in the idea that certainty of punishment is more effective than severity of punishment. If they know they'll get punished, even in a minor way, they just don't commit the offense. If they think they might get away with it, then they'll continue to do it. No matter how much they get punished for it.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Oh, I'm big into talking about what they do right as well as what they do wrong. I was just more into talking about disipline at the moment.

I retrospect, I think I regret the things I didn't do, for fear of repercussions, more than the things I did do and got punished.

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp I've got a friend with similar regrets. I pretty much did what I felt like doing. Still, I was introverted and having a very hedonistic dad whose footsteps I was determined not to follow kept me on the fairly straight and narrow. I did quite a bit that was against the rules, but not drugs or alchohol or anything particularly harmful to anyone.
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp In short, I was a good kid. Heh, I did recently admit to my Mom that I was sneaking out virtualy every night. She didn't believe me at first till I laughed and explained how I avoided leaving the usual signs. (I went out the front door) I don't think I'll ever tell her about playing chicken with a cop...
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Oh well, what she doesn't know won't hurt me.