The Cellar - Scouts get pwned

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I like it when hypocrites get pwned.

Does it strike anyone else as funny that this comes in the City of Brotherly Love?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode (Post 398349)

I like it when hypocrites get pwned.

Does it strike anyone else as funny that this comes in the City of Brotherly Love?

City of Brotherly Love...
Gay Scouts...
The Scouts have a "Homosexual Incest" badge?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 398073)

The mormons took over the scouts?

Maybe they ran out of choirboys?

First, I know there is a lot of good to be found in the Boy Scouts of America.
Second, I know there is a lot of good to be found in the Boy Scouts of America.
Third, I know there is a lot of good to be found in the Boy Scouts of America.

BUT... I have been bothered for years by their policies regarding:
... exclusion of gays
... keeping secret lists of names of men accused of molesting scouts.

Finally, an Oregon case has tackled the second issue.

NWCN.com
by SUSANNAH FRAME / KING 5 News
October 17, 2012

Public to get access to Boy Scouts’ ‘perversion files’

Quote:

"Perversion files" kept for decades by the Boy Scouts of America
are scheduled to be released for public inspection Thursday by a Portland attorney.

The thousands of pages of documents contained in 1200 files dated from 1965 to 1985,
show how the Boy Scouts dealt with men who were accused of molesting children.
<snip>
The man who sexually abused Kerry Lewis over a two year period,
Assistant Scoutmaster Timur Dykes, confessed in 1983 to a Scouting leader,
a Mormon bishop, that he had molested 17 boys in his troop.

According to testimony at trial, instead of warning parents or calling police,
the bishop slowly allowed Dykes back into Scouting.
The next year Dykes began molesting Kerry Lewis when the Scout was 13.
Dykes was convicted of the crimes and served prison time in Oregon.
He is currently a Portland resident and a registered sex offender

A jury awarded Lewis $18.5 million in 2010, concluding that the
Boy Scouts knew about the problem and failed to protect him.

The files to be released Thursday were presented to the jury by plaintiff attorneys
as proof that the organization had collected so many records on child molesters
that they had an obligation to warn parents and Scout leaders that pedophiles
were accessing victims through Scouting.
<snip>
The Boy Scouts waged a five-year legal battle to keep the documents away
from public view which led ultimately to an Oregon Supreme Court ruling.
The Court ruled that since the files were admitted into evidence in open court
in the Lewis case, the records belonged to the public and should be produced for public inspection.
<snip>
In 2008 they instituted background checks for all volunteers
and after the Lewis case in 2010, Scout policy changed to require all suspected abuse
be reported to law enforcement.

An on-line database is now available at the following link...

http://spreadsheets.latimes.com/boyscouts-cases/

I did a simple search for Oregon, and the thing that impressed me
most was that so many different cities were listed.
I mean, I might have expected a larger number of listings for the bigger cities,
but it so many different towns and cities were listed.

My thought was that the parents of most kids involved in scouting
probably have no idea how widespread is the problem.

Quote:

Mormons control a significant percentage of all Boy Scout troops; if policies change to treat gays and atheists equally, the Mormons will walk - taking all of their money with them.

Well, if the Mormons do decide that the Boy Scouts have become too inclusive of gays and need to find a youth organization to take over that has a better track record of anti-gay leanings, they could always bring back the Hitler Youth.

Heck they could save money that way by being able to keep the brown shirts.:right:

What is it about old(er) men and young(er) boys? You've got the Catholic priesthood (most famously at least), school locker rooms and male-centric organizations, like Boy Scouts. And prison, to an extent.

Do nuns just never attempt to diddle little girls? Do they just get away with it better? I was a Girl Scout back in the day and I don't ever remember any Girl Scout-focused tales floating around like the one about tying a shoestring to your bits while camping as a "TAKE ME!" signal to the authoritative figure. Did those stories manage to miss me? I also don't remember any scandals involving female coaches 'showing their athletes how to shower'. Sure, you hear about she-teachers bedding a male students, but you don't hear about them bedding female ones. Is there just more discretion between both parties?

I think it is a power thing wolf.

I hate the scouts they act like they own the federal/state parks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyber Wolf (Post 835381)

Sure, you hear about she-teachers bedding a male students, but you don't hear about them bedding female ones. Is there just more discretion between both parties?

Boy Scouts of America banned gay scout leaders because emotions (and not facts) were behind their logic. We are now learning that the Boy Scouts knew of thousands of pedophile scout leaders and did nothing. Just like the Catholic Church.

Sexual predators come mostly from one group. Not women. Not gays. Most sexual predators are otherwise called heterosexual males. How this plays out in research remains unknown. But pedophiles are often a same sexual subgroup that most aggressively mocks or condemns homosexuals.

Mitt Romney is responsible for this madness.

The BSA is finally making a decision, but I seriously question if this one is for the better or worse.

NY Times
By ERIK ECKHOLM
April 19, 2013

Boy Scouts Move to Lift Ban on Gay Youth Members

Quote:

Seeking an elusive middle ground on an issue that has divided
its ranks and drawn heated national debate, the Boy Scouts of America on Friday
proposed ending its longstanding ban on openly gay scouts
but continuing to bar gay adults from serving as leaders.

The decision must be approved by the roughly 1,400 voting members
of the Scouts’ National Council at a meeting in Texas the week of May 20.
<snip>
“The Boy Scouts have missed an opportunity to exercise leadership and
usher the organization back to relevancy,” said Richard Ferraro,
the vice president of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Discrimination.
“What this resolution appears to be doing is reinforcing the outrageous idea
that gay people somehow pose a threat to kids, which experts like the
American Psychological Association have dismissed for more than a decade.”
<snip>

First, understand that to be a volunteer leader in the BSA,
a person MUST be the parent of a boy who has joined the Scouts.
So, a gay boy is allowed to join, but his gay father or mother are not allowed to participate ?

Separating boys from their parent(s) as a matter of policy does not seem like the very good idea to me.

Quote:

But Martez Moore, chief operating officer of the Scouts’ Middle Tennessee Council,
said he supported the proposal, especially the continued barring of gay leaders.
In surveys, he said, local parents were “overwhelmingly in support of banning gay Scout leaders.”

He said he did not expect that a decision to admit openly gay boys as scouts would have a major effect.
“Scouts who are gay usually decide with their own families whether they want to stay in a troop,”
he said. “It is a decision made within a family, not usually within the Scouts.”

So, let them join... and then drive them out. :mad:

Makes sense to me. Most gay male adults aren't interested in little boys sexually, it's usually the straight males with families.

So the predators will be allowed to remain, and will have more sheep in their flocks.

Sort of a win-win-lose situation. They probably should have just gone with DADT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 861729)

First, understand that to be a volunteer leader in the BSA,
a person MUST be the parent of a boy who has joined the Scouts.

When did this come about? This was not true back in the dark ages of my youth.

Quote:

So, a gay boy is allowed to join, but his gay father or mother are not allowed to participate ?

Of all the scouts in the country, damn few parents want to be, or have the skills, to be scout leaders.

Quote:

Separating boys from their parent(s) as a matter of policy does not seem like the very good idea to me.

I thought the idea of the scouts was to get them out of the comfort zone of family, and teach them to be self reliant. Teach them to work with other kids, who have different skills and perspectives.

While not ideal, I see this as a workable compromise for the millions of parents that don't want their sons to catch the gays. If their boy doesn't catch it from a queer scout, it'll ease their fears of queer leaders.

Baby steps. I can see this working and I support it as a step in the right direction.

But it's wrong on its face. If the fear is that somebody who is attracted to men might also be attracted to boys, and therefore shouldn't be allowed to be a leader, then why are women allowed to be leaders? Most women are attracted to men. If being attracted to men means you are also attracted to boys, then aren't moms also a huge risk to the organization? It's nonsense.

Besides, they have a tough policy that's been in place for years that says that no adults can be alone with a scout unless they are a parent. Following that policy means that nobody has a chance to molest a scout.

If there is a concern with having gays in scouts it would be that a gay scout gets to sleep side by side in a 2 man tent with a straight scout. Or even 2 gay scouts together. We probably wouldn't put a 17 year old girl in a tent next to a 17 year old boy without a chaperone. When openly gay scouts are admitted into a troop, I think leaders need to be aware of the situation and pay attention to sleeping arrangements. I'm not sure how to handle that. If there's only one gay scout, it's not fair to make them sleep by themselves. Maybe three in a tent is best. I'm not sure about that.

Here is the current policy for youth protection in scouts.

Quote:

•
Two-deep leadership.
Two registered adult
leaders or one registered adult leader and a
parent of a participant, one of whom must be
21 years of age or older, are required on all
trips and outings. The chartered organization
is responsible for ensuring that sufficient
leadership is provided for all activities. This
requirement applies to all the activities of
the Order of the Arrow as well as
provisional unit activities.
•
No one-on-one contact.
One on one contact
between adults and youth members is not
permitted. In situations that require personal
conferences, such as a Scoutmasters
conference, the meeting is to be conducted
in view of other adults and youths.
Respect of privacy.
Adult leadership needs to
respect the privacy of youth members in situations
such as changing into swimming suits or taking
showers at camp and intrude only to the extent
that health and safety requires. They also need to
protect their own privacy in similar situations.
•
Separate accommodations.
When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult
other than his own parent or guardian. Councils
are strongly encouraged to have separate shower
and latrine facilities for females and when separate
facilities are not available, times for male and
female use should be scheduled and posted for
showers.
•
Proper preparation for High-adventure
activities.
Activities with elements of risk should
never be undertaken without proper preparation,
equipment, clothing, supervision, and safety
measures.
•
No secret organizations.
There are no “secret”
organizations recognized by the Boy Scouts of
America. All aspects of the scouting program are
open to observation by parents and leaders.
•
Appropriate attire.
Proper clothing for activities
is required- for example, skinny-dipping is not
appropriate as part of Scouting.
•
Constructive discipline.
Discipline used in
Scouting should be constructive and reflect
Scouting’s values. Corporal punishment is never
permitted.
•
Hazing prohibited.
Physical hazing and
initiations are prohibited and may not be included
as part of any Scouting activity
•
Junior leader training and supervision.
Adult leaders must monitor and guide the
leadership techniques used by junior leaders
and see that BSA policies are followed.

For my post above, I did not go into "unforeseen consequences" or "hidden agendas".

The first "unforseen" that came to my mind was a drifting segregation
into troops/packs of straight and gay boys, with all the negatives that can generate.

The "hiddens" are hidden, but I strongly suspect the the religious organizations
their support of BSA will be quite opposed to activities or literature
demonstrating that gay (adoptive) parents can be as good role models as straight parents,
and how will a boy explain to others and himself that his Dad is not good enough to be a leader or volunteer ?

Over the past few days, I've come to the opinion this "new" policy
of the BSA reeks of old and new pathways to discrimination, belittling, and harm.