I wonder if by producing all these we are encouraging the next antigen shift?

I just attended a security seminar here last week that detailed out some business continuity/disaster recovery plans in their bird flu presentation. (yeah, they're still worried about that strain, it seems) One thing they suggested: since H5N1 cannot yet be vaccinated against, getting the flu shot every year will help you in the event of a pandemic. The logic is that if you get the shot but contract the flu, then you know what strain you likely have and should get help as quickly as possible with the early symptoms. The earlier, the better.

Of course, the presenter also told us that we all needed to be prepared for bird flu in order to survive it. That came out to enough food, water purification, Tamiflu (we're supposed to beg our doctors for prescriptions so we can stockpile it), surgical masks (3 masks per day, per person), latex gloves, and other supplies to last 12 weeks for just one of many waves of the disease. So, that could just be some odd paranoia...

Well like you said, its a different shot every year, produced by a few different labs. There have been sanitation issues within the labs for the past few years, causing shortages - but I don't think you can say "the flu shot causes X" unless you're talking about one specific year/product.

Here's a wiki on the Swine Flu, which includes this info;

It's several different strains each year, but yes. The thing is, how accurate is the model used to predict the strains? One school of thought in the biz suggests that the currently favoured model is flawed because it predicts speed of spread without taking into acount the increease in intercontinental travel, and as a result is a few years out of date. Right strains, but too late.

Define bad reaction? some kids don't take shots well. One of mine does, one is indifferent, and I'd suggest the last has a bad reactiion. not a medical, but an emotional reaction. Extreme enough to make me question one more time the necessity of each shot. Which is no bad thing IMO.

I got the flu shot every year as a kid until I was 15. Haven't had it since. I think I've stored 15 years worth of antivenom, so I'll get shots again around 30! But I freakin' hate needles. I have to think of something totally awesome when I get blood drawn or a shot to persuade my mind to wander away from the long, cold, sharp, piercing....

Many years back, I worked for a company that had a nurse come and give us flu shots for free, and it seemed to work--no one got the flu. I didn't even get a cold during that time, which was nice.

Now for the past two winters, I've come down with pneumonia. I wonder if I could have avoided it the first time--I knew I was getting sick, but tried to ignore it; I didn't get enough sleep and decided to go out in the bitter cold to an early morning meeting. A couple of weeks later I had to go to the emergency room, because I could hardly breathe without coughing. And the pain that comes with the coughing...I can't even describe it. When it started to happen again last year, I knew enough to take my butt to the doctor to get meds, before it got as horrific as before.

Since I'm apparently very susceptible to fucking pneumonia now, I have to get a vaccine for it this year, some time this month.

[/quote]
Define bad reaction?
[/quote]

Well, I thought I'd heard something about the vaccine being made in/with eggs. Some people can't tolerate them.

Everything you always wanted to know about the flu shot but were afraid to ask:

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/

Define bad reaction?
[/quote]

Well, I thought I'd heard something about the vaccine being made in/with eggs. Some people can't tolerate them.[/quote]



TIV
TIV should not be administered to persons known to have anaphylactic hypersensitivity to eggs or to other components of the influenza vaccine. Prophylactic use of antiviral agents is an option for preventing influenza among such persons. Information regarding vaccine components is located in package inserts from each manufacturer. Persons with moderate to severe acute febrile illness usually should not be vaccinated until their symptoms have abated. However, minor illnesses with or without fever do not contraindicate use of influenza vaccine. GBS within 6 weeks following a previous dose of TIV is considered to be a precaution for use of TIV.

LAIV
LAIV is not currently licensed for use in the following groups, and these persons should not be vaccinated with LAIV:

persons with a history of hypersensitivity, including anaphylaxis, to any of the components of LAIV or to eggs.
persons aged <5 years or those aged >50 years;
persons with any of the underlying medical conditions that serve as an indication for routine influenza vaccination, including asthma, reactive airways disease, or other chronic disorders of the pulmonary or cardiovascular systems;
other underlying medical conditions, including such metabolic diseases as diabetes, renal dysfunction, and hemoglobinopathies; or known or suspected immunodeficiency diseases or immunosuppressed states;
children or adolescents receiving aspirin or other salicylates (because of the association of Reye syndrome with
wild-type influenza virus infection);
persons with a history of GBS; or
pregnant women

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/acip/shouldnot.htm

The science behind it is pretty sound:

How effective is the flu vaccine?
How well the flu vaccine works depends on how well the match is between the influenza (flu) vaccine and the types of flu viruses that are circulating that year. Scientists try to predict what strains (types) of flu viruses are most likely to spread and cause illness each year to put into the vaccine. In years when the vaccine strains and the virus strains are well-matched, the vaccine can reduce the chances of getting the flu by 70%-90% in healthy adults. The vaccine may be somewhat less effective in elderly persons and very young children, but vaccination can still prevent serious complications from the flu.

In healthy adults less than 65 years of age, the flu vaccine can also prevent lost work days, and keep you from having to see the doctor or using unnecessary antibiotics.

Is the flu vaccine effective against all types of flu and cold viruses?
The flu vaccine is your best protection against flu viruses. However, the vaccine does not provide protection against non-flu viruses that can cause colds and other respiratory illnesses. It can sometimes be hard to tell the difference between a cold and the flu based on symptoms alone.

The flu vaccine won't protect you from cold or flu viruses that are already in your body when you get a flu vaccine. The flu vaccine takes about two weeks to provide protection from the flu, and it's your best protection to prevent the most common types of flu this season.

Why do I need to get a flu vaccine every year?
Flu viruses change from year to year, which means two things. First, you can get the flu more than once during your lifetime. The immunity (natural protection that develops against a disease after a person has had that disease) that is built up from having the flu caused by one flu virus strain doesn't always provide protection against newer strains of the flu. Second, a vaccine made against flu viruses going around last year may not protect against the newer viruses. That is why the flu vaccine is updated to include current viruses every year.

Another reason to get the flu vaccine every year is that after vaccination, protection from the flu strains in the vaccine decreases over the year.

Because of these reasons, a new flu vaccine is needed each year.

Does the flu vaccine work the same for everyone?
The flu vaccine is the single best way to prevent the flu, and vaccination is the main tool used to protect people from influenza. A number of studies have shown that the flu vaccine works, but how well the vaccine works can change from year to year and vary among different groups of people. The ability of the flu vaccine to protect a person depends on at least two things: 1) the age and health of the person getting the vaccine, and 2) the similarity or "match" between the virus strains in the vaccine and those being spread in the community.

Vaccine effectiveness is not 100%, and some people can still get the flu. For instance, some older people and people with certain chronic illnesses might develop less immunity than healthy young adults after vaccination. However, even for these high-risk individuals, the vaccine still can provide protection against getting severe complications from the flu.

How effective is the flu vaccine in the elderly?
Among elderly persons not living in chronic-care facilities (such as nursing homes) and those persons with long-term (chronic) medical conditions, the flu shot is 30%-70% effective in preventing hospitalization for pneumonia (a lung infection) and influenza. Among elderly nursing home residents, the flu shot is most effective in preventing severe illness, complications that may follow flu (like pneumonia), and deaths related to the flu. In this population, the shot can be 50%-60% effective in preventing hospitalization or pneumonia, and 80% effective in preventing death from the flu.

Because persons aged 65 years and older are at high risk for serious complications from the flu, it also is important that people who live with or care for those at high risk for serious complications get a flu vaccination.

How effective is the flu vaccine in children?
Because children less than 5 years of age are at increased risk of severe flu illnesses, children 6-59 months and the household contacts and caregivers of children 0-59 months are recommended to get the flu vaccine every year. Children less than 6 months of age are most at risk for having complications from flu. However, they are too young to get the flu vaccine. To protect these infants, it is very important that their household members and out-of-home caregivers be vaccinated against the flu.

The flu vaccine can prevent 66% or more influenza infections in young children, with even higher estimates for older children, when the vaccine strains are well-matched to the flu viruses causing illness. Vaccinating close contacts of children can also help decrease children’s risk of getting the flu.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

Introduction
In the United States, annual epidemics of influenza occur typically during the late fall and winter seasons; an annual average of approximately 36,000 deaths during 1990–1999 and 226,000 hospitalizations during 1979–2001 have been associated with influenza epidemics. Influenza viruses can cause disease among persons in any age group (3–5), but rates of infection are highest among children. Rates of serious illness and death are highest among persons aged >65 years, children aged <2 years, and persons of any age who have medical conditions that place them at increased risk for complications from influenza.

Influenza vaccination is the most effective method for preventing influenza virus infection and its potentially severe complications. Influenza immunization efforts are focused primarily on providing vaccination to persons at risk for influenza complications and to contacts of these persons. Influenza vaccine may be administered to any person aged >6 months to reduce the likelihood of becoming ill with influenza or of transmitting influenza to others; if vaccine supply is limited, priority for vaccination is typically assigned to persons in specific groups and of specific ages who are, or are contacts of, persons at higher risk for influenza complications.

Annual vaccination against influenza is recommended for:

all persons, including school-aged children, who want to reduce the risk of becoming ill with influenza or of transmitting influenza to others
all children aged 6–59 months (i.e., 6 months–4 years);
all persons aged >50 years;
children and adolescents (aged 6 months–18 years) receiving long-term aspirin therapy who therefore might be at risk for experiencing Reye syndrome after influenza virus infection;
women who will be pregnant during the influenza season;
adults and children who have chronic pulmonary (including asthma), cardiovascular (except hypertension), renal, hepatic, hematological or metabolic disorders (including diabetes mellitus);
adults and children who have immunosuppression (including immunosuppression caused by medications or by human immunodeficiency virus;
adults and children who have any condition (e.g., cognitive dysfunction, spinal cord injuries, seizure disorders, or other neuromuscular disorders) that can compromise respiratory function or the handling of respiratory secretions or that can increase the risk for aspiration;
residents of nursing homes and other chronic-care facilities;
health-care personnel;
healthy household contacts (including children) and caregivers of children aged <5 years and adults aged >50 years, with particular emphasis on vaccinating contacts of children aged <6 months; and
healthy household contacts (including children) and caregivers of persons with medical conditions that put them at higher risk for severe complications from influenza.

Trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine (TIV) may be used for any person aged >6 months, including those with high-risk conditions. Live, attenuated influenza vaccine (LAIV) currently is approved only for use among healthy, nonpregnant persons aged 5–49 years. Because influenza viruses undergo frequent antigenic change (i.e., antigenic drift), persons recommended for vaccination must receive an annual vaccination against the influenza viruses currently in circulation. Although vaccination coverage has increased in recent years for many groups recommended for routine vaccination, coverage remains unacceptably low, and strategies to improve vaccination coverage, including use of reminder/recall systems and standing orders programs, should be implemented or expanded.

Antiviral medications are an adjunct to vaccination and are effective when administered as treatment and when used for chemoprophylaxis after an exposure to influenza virus. Oseltamivir and zanamivir are the only antiviral medications currently recommended for use in the United States. Resistance to oseltamivir or zanamivir remains rare. Amantadine or rimantidine should not be used for the treatment or prevention of influenza in the United States until evidence of susceptibility to these antiviral medications has been reestablished among circulating influenza A viruses.

Biology of Influenza
Influenza A and B are the two types of influenza viruses that cause epidemic human disease. Influenza A viruses are categorized into subtypes on the basis of two surface antigens: hemagglutinin and neuraminidase. Currently circulating influenza B viruses are separated into two distinct genetic lineages but are not categorized into subtypes. Since 1977, influenza A (H1N1) viruses, influenza A (H3N2) viruses, and influenza B viruses have circulated globally. In certain recent years, influenza A (H1N2) viruses that probably emerged after genetic reassortment between human A (H3N2) and A (H1N1) viruses also have circulated. Both influenza A subtypes and B viruses are further separated into groups on the basis of antigenic similarities. New influenza virus variants result from frequent antigenic change (i.e., antigenic drift) resulting from point mutations that occur during viral replication. Influenza B viruses undergo antigenic drift less rapidly than influenza A viruses.

Immunity to the surface antigens, particularly the hemagglutinin, reduces the likelihood of infection. Antibody against one influenza virus type or subtype confers limited or no protection against another type or subtype of influenza virus. Furthermore, antibody to one antigenic type or subtype of influenza virus might not protect against infection with a new antigenic variant of the same type or subtype. Frequent emergence of antigenic variants through antigenic drift is the virologic basis for seasonal epidemics as well as the reason for annually reassessing the need to change one or more of the recommended strains for influenza vaccines.

More dramatic changes, or antigenic shifts, occur less frequently and can result in the emergence of a novel influenza A virus with the potential to cause a pandemic. Antigenic shift occurs when a new subtype of influenza A virus emerges. New influenza A subtypes have the potential to cause a pandemic when they are demonstrated to be able to cause human illness and demonstrate efficient human-to-human transmission, in the setting of little or no previously existing immunity among humans.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals...background.htm

Ahh, but there's the spin ... In years when the vaccine strains and the virus strains are well-matched ...
which was the point in question: how likely are they to be well matched? I can't find the answer to that in either of these articles.

But, to link to the vaccination and social responsibility thread, it does make this good point:
"Children less than 6 months of age are most at risk for having complications from flu. However, they are too young to get the flu vaccine. To protect these infants, it is very important that their household members and out-of-home caregivers be vaccinated against the flu."
Yup, vaccinate your six year old to protect your newborn infant. Make the babysitter get it too. This applies to most vaccinations, I think.

BTW, the one time I got it I became very ill.
Have been told that I should get it because of my suppressed immune system, but I will only get a nonvirulent shot.
They are hard to get around here, so I have not gotten it.

I found out today at work (annual shot day) that they are still using shots with traces of Mercury in the preservative. Please ask your doctor for the shot without Mercury, and definitely ask if you are pregnant. There are flu shots without the Mercury content, but not for the people at my work. I'll skip it this year. I don't need any more retardants right now. Thank you.


I only say Mercury, because I just found out about the Mercury content.....hopefully you guys knew about it.

and don't forget to wash your hands often! and nag your coworkers and family members to wash their hands too. A simple but often overlooked preventive measure.