As an entertainer he's a genius. Musically, most of his work is pretty simple, and there are a million singers who have better voices.

What about Elvis, The Beetles, U2 et al?

:eyebrow: :whofart: :shock:
:crazy:

I know we have our own opinions, and I respect them all, but it's like someone turned the world upside down just when you said that :worried:

HE IS A FREEK !!!

He is the King.

It's not an opinion about his music being relatively simple fresh. It's a fact. Yes some of his later arrangements have included a lot of embelishments, but the basic structure is simple. He didn't break any ground musically. Only as an entertainer.

Do you have any qualifications musically with which to refute this fact? Just curious.

Ok, when you invent the pop music genre, that might be some cause to say he knows his shit. And yes, since I know music theory and have read some of MJ's scores and I really don't know where it considered ordinary. His contribution to music in the past 25 years cannot be matched, sorry Red Hot Chili Peppers, sorry Yoyo Ma, sorry Il Divo. No fucking way. And that should be obvious, when you invent your own genre.
Breaking grounds musically. Artists nowadays sound the way they do because of him. His voice? I can name a bunch of artists who try to sound like MJ, but none of them can. Aren't one hit wonders enough evidence? One track where their voice sounds decent, then their career is idle and eventually dies. Because their voice sounds good for one track. Do you know how developed his range is? Not just his falsetto, but his natural range beats out that of some women singers. And did you ever hear him on the Jackson 5? That is some of the most ridiculous singing ever recorded. EVER. Hands down. Now I won't compare him with opera because that is a different utilization of the voice. But anyways, his voice is and always will be amazing. Definitely. Also, do you know why music videos are abundant? Because of him, and because of Thriller. The music industry was totally revolutionized because of Michael. Music videos provided another way to make revenue.

Michael is so influential in music, would it not be correct to many contemporary artists look to HIM as a blueprint of a successful pop song. Usher, Mariah Carey, Justin Timberlake, huge names like this credit Michael in their pop music rise to stardom. And it is well due.

And don't get me started on his song writing. Nearly ALL of his albums he wrote or co-write. Not only his stuff, but other artists, like Lionel Richie just to use one big name. This isn't your basement song writer with his guitar progressing from a I chord to a IV chord to a V chord with lyrics like "I want you, yes it's true, oh girl, you're my world." No, we are talking about lyrics that are so fucking good they result in albums that are global phenomenon. Songwriting is hard ass shit and MJ is one of the best ever.

I can't emphasize enough how important MJ has been to musical evolution of contemporary times. No one had taken over and dominated the American public musically since Elvis. And I wholeheartedly think that it will be a while til something or someone will.

Usher, Mariah Carey, Justin Timberlake, huge names like this credit Michael in their pop music rise to stardom.

FUuuuuCK! I say we kill him, drag his body through the streets behind a Stryker, then burn it and hang it off a bridge. Who's with me!! This is SPARTAAAAA!

Just one question fc: have you ever heard the name Quincy Jones?

I play trumpet so yes, yes I have. And he's from Chicago, like me.

He produced MJ's album, Thriller. A musical legend.

He produced all of MJ's best work. He made most of the decisions you're crediting to MJ. He hired the musicians, he chose each vocal track.

He did "Off the Wall", "Thriller" and "Bad". Compare and contrast to every MJ record since then. Where's the talent?

Hm, maybe so, I did not know of those productions, just Thriller. But you're next statement said he has no talent. I can never agree with that.

If artists don't have talent, then we need to credit the producers 100%. Artists don't mean anything? It's all about the production crew? Music producers need artists, just like artists need producers. It's a very very mutual relationship. One can't survive without the other. If Michael didn't have the voice, song writing capabilities or whatever, then Jones would have just had a great arrangement idea. But no actual, demonstration. You can't discredit MJ at all, really. I'm not discrediting Quincy Jones, but I'm definitely not discrediting Michael either.

I'm more of a Warren Zevon man than a Michael Jackson man -- though I particularly enjoyed one lyric from "Black And White": "I ain't spending my life being a color," which I thought a very smart thing to say.

Now Mr. Zevon's lyrics were often brainy stuff. And he did come up with the elegiac line about "Don't let us get stupid, all right. . ."