Or ambivalence....... of the individual Iraqi.

Come to think of it, they're the ones that messed up the grand scheme of things. The war would have been over long ago if it weren't for them.:idea:

i dont think anything went wrong with the plan, the US government chose to do what it's doing in Iraq.
At any cost they needed control of the oil and keeping Iraq in turmoil is the way they're choosing to do it.
they're not helping them or rebuidling anything that makes up for the amount of destruction they're causing, it's all a big lie, listen to the soldiers that come back (check google video). for every school that's built - ten are demolished, they're destroying it on purpose.

I never meant to imply the American people... The Administration with the help of certain press agencies are the culprits.

There are huge cultural differences between the Arab world and the Western world. Major ones being:

- Religion. Islam is a large part of an average Iraqi's daily life - more than Christianity is part of an average Westerner's
- Equality/ diversity - partly because of the above, partly because of tribal traditions still extant, there are very different views about the place of women in society in most Arab countries and the treatment of homosexuals
- The weapons/ macho culture. Very much an eye for an eye, and weapons are often let off in celebration/ protest. They love a bit of burning in effigy too

Hmmmm....

Iraq was pretty secular.

Sorry - I should have said that Islam is more a part of a Muslim's life...

But it was meant to be a lighthearted parallel anyway

Thanks for the clarification.
However, I always thought the idea that Iraq as a haven for al qaeda to be hilarious. It, as a secular middle eastern state is the exact opposite of what they wanted for the Arab area, an abomination much less the world.
The illegal US invasion/occupation made it more of a haven for al qaeda than it ever would have been as is.

Well, I only meant to compare Iraqis to Christian fundamentals... May have missed the mark.

Welcome to the Cellar. :D You are claiming the coalition forces are intentionally destroying schools for no reason other than orders from above?
I'm can't swallow that one without some proof or at least a plausible reason. It just doesn't float. I can see the Islamic extremists destroying secular schools and trying to keep girls out of classes, but not "our" side.

Control the oil? No, just knock out Saddam and the now free, formerly oppressed Iraqis, will be so grateful we'll be in like Flynn. Occam's Razor. Never assume an evil plan when stupidity explains it. Actually turmoil isn't to our advantage, but a solid bloc would be worse. As long as Saddam was in power there was no danger of that.

How are the two remotely alike?

Then why is there so much hatred between the Sunnis and shias. And both of them with the Kurds. Since Iraqi is a tag that came with the cobbling together Iraq, of three enemies, by outside forces, there's really no grounds for national heritage or pride. Make a democracy implausible. :(

There is a long history of social division between the two, encouraged and made far worse by Saddam. It is thought of, by them, more as a racial thing than religious. They are all Muslim.

Neither was meant as a serious critique on religious/ secular culture, merely a comparison of two extremes that reach round the ends of the spectrum.

Where are you getting your info on the average daily life of the normal Iraqi?

She means more-fundamental-than-usual muslims, methinks.