I have a horribly nasty feeling I've been there.... Either that or all the ski resorts in Italy look the same.

The fart thread? Haven't seen it but it brings to mind the following:

* Methane is a greenhouse gas
* We all fart methane
* Most of the energy produced is by methods that produce large amounts of greenhouse gases
* Therefore, why not strap some sort of balloon device to everyone's bums, collect the methane and use it in gas power plants?

And we don't need to stop at people - livestock such as cows and sheep (chickens?) could also have their own balloons. Dolphins?? The possibilities are endless!

Anyone with me on this one?

Well, if you want to get into the nitty gritty, check out this thread. It'll keep you entertained for a while.

Welcome to the Cellar, bhaemolytic, garren bagley and officer purple.:thumb2:

Parts of the Italian Alps had blizzards right up until June this year, record snowfalls, and I saw pictures of a 12" snowfall in August. The seasons seem to be shifting some.

Considering the rate that China is polluting the environment with coal burning and cement production........um, maybe not.

It always bugs me that Global Warming is all OUR fault. Why does no one seem to ever mention natures contributions?

We had Mount St Helens back in 1980. I mean just as an example; it felled all the trees in a 212 square mile area. Using 'volcanic gases' it hoisted 1.5 cubic miles of rocks, soil, and ash, 15 miles into the air! I mean think about the millions of tons of gases that were involved! (That's tons of gas!!) The lateral column of gas left at 1,100km/hr at 600F!! Then we had huge Pinatubo blow. Right now there are 98 active volcanoes erupting. Any one of them in a spasm can dump out more greenhouse gas in a day than man can generate in a year.

Image Credit: Armando Alvarez Sanchez, Cruz Roja Ecuatoriana.
Attachment 10851

As an example here's a quote about Mt. Ruapehu NZ: "The amount of sulfur dioxide released by the volcano is about 1000 tons per day, well down from the highs which have exceeded 10,000 tons per day."

Add to this things like fires. Two or three years ago they had fires burning in Asia or Indonesia that were insanely huge - thousands, and thousands, of square miles burned for months bringing life to a near standstill in the area.

Anyway, since I can easily believe volcanoes and such don't all agree to emit just so much each year, that we could have an "overdose" for several years that ultimately effects our planet's temperature in following years. But I never hear anything about that! Just, "We humans (and especially evile USA humans)", are causing global warming and "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

The sky may be falling and humanity may not be helping to prop it back up but I'm not even vaguely convinced that it's all our fault.:3eye:

BTW: You might enjoy this link:
http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/...s/current.html

Right, but ten thousand years ago (or whenever), volcanoes were going off and forests were burning too, I think, and the carbon they contributed to the atmosphere is reflected in the fossil record. It's the change over the last couple of hundred years (not just the last couple of decades) that's of concern, and there is no notion that the natural sources are solely responsible.

Regarding "millions of tons of greenhouse gases": consider that a mid-sized 30 mpg car driving 12,000 miles/year will create about 3.55 tons of CO2/year, multiply by the number of cars on the road, and I think we can take on a few volcano's-worth of emissions ourselves.

The 20th century was the least volcanic ever. :D

People mention that constantly. It's factored in.

You know, I've always thought that #2 is a bit irrelevant to #3. If warming is in fact taking place, to a point that threatens the biosphere and/or us, then it seems like we should figure out what can be done regardless of whether or not it's caused by human activity or not. If greenhouse gases are in fact part of the cause, then indicates a certain set of potential solutions, but not whether or not a solution is needed.

You skipped a step;

1 - Is warming occuring?
1a - Is it a problem?
1b - If so how much?
2 - If yes, is it caused by man?
3 - If yes again, what should be done?

answers;
1 - yes
1a - We don't know
1b - We know some changes and their expected result, but since we don't know how warm it will get, we don't know the whole story. Plus there is bound to be things happening that nobody expected.
2 - Caused, no. Contributed to, yes. Disagreement on how much.
3 - That depends on 1a & 1b, change is not inherently bad.

That's not even it, in a nut shell. Way more complicated than that. :smack:

Another view may include that human are just another part of the whole of nature. And though we think we can make changes to better our "pristine environment", the whole of nature is going to do whatever changes are necessary to balance out.

From a Neomalthusian perspective, it doesnt matter. Its probably too late.

Never ceases to amaze me that anyone can even entertain the idea that its possible to stabilize the earth's climate. Its never been stable and it never will be stable. North America will again be covered in a miles-thick sheet of ice. The only question is when.

Damn I best get up more wood. :bolt:

This may help NSFW
http://www.cellar.org/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=81

Apparently they made enough snow at Val Gardena to hold the World Cup races. And Bode Miller won by a large margin!