In my view of things without the interest deduction there are ZERO deductions.

I'm all for eliminating the deductions, but have to admit that they were helpful in my paying off my mortgage early. If they hadn't been in effect, I may not have been able to keep my home given the $2 million+ in medical expenses I've incurred over the last 2 years. No, I didn't have to pay it all, but even 90% of 2 mil is a HUGE number for me personally.

As far as taxing income from different sources differently ... I think that needs to go as well. That will hit the wealthy much more than the rest of us.

I have to say, I'm conflicted. Ideologically, I support lookout's plan. But in reality, we currently benefit from medical deductions to the point that this past year we paid no taxes at all. And that refund really, really helped us. We would have been pretty fucked without it, truth be told. So I'm a hypocrite.

I'm right there with you Clodfobble. I have not had less than $10K out of pocket for the last three years and have absolutely needed the refunds that resulted in that time.

If we fix the healthcare system, the deduction becomes unecessary.

I get that kids cost money. I'm not going to be even slightly popular when I say it wasn't my choice that others have those kids, so I don't know why the refunds increase with every decision someone makes to have kids.

It takes a village? Sure. I'll support schools and libraries, I'll support a community in which those kids can be brought up.

I won't even get into the whole overpopulation thing.

But seeing 4, 5 thousand dollar tax refunds...it's ridiculous. I think it puts into perspective the argument that the richies don't pay enough taxes. Maybe they don't, but someone is backing all those negative thousands tax liabilities. It might be me.

I have, as is part of my profession, seen thousands of tax returns. It boggles the mind. I want to jump and shout for my little "making work pay" credit.

I chose to have a cat. I don't expect anyone to subsidize that choice.

(oh crap, I'm in trouble)

This is where I take umbrage. You smoke right? Well, when you are sixty and using Medicare to subsidize your emphysema/cancer treatments, will you care if non-smokers taxes are subsidizing it?

I agree with the benefits of homeownership that have been listed, and add that when we're invaded, people will more strongly defend a home they own than one that they rent. On the other hand, there is data out there now that says our economy is suffering because workers are unable to relocate to where the jobs are. I don't think everyone needs to own their home. Some people have ruined their financial lives trying to acheive that particular "American Dream".

I expected umbrage.

I expect I need an umbrella, such stong words.

I don't know. I have insurance. I work for that.

You drive right?

Owning a home is not the only way to establish roots.

I have never owned a property. I doubt I ever will. But I have been living in the same village for about 15 years, 7 of them in my current house. I am as much a part of this community as my neighbour.

In some parts of Europe, renting and leasing are the norm. very few people are able to own a home outright, and mortgages are seen in many parts as a debt too far. That used to be the case here too. It was only really after the 80s that home ownership began to be seen as the norm. Now, in the wake of the property bubble bursting it is becoming more common again to rent, and the stigma which had grown up over the past few decades is starting to die off. The average age of a first time buyer now is mid 30s.

Do you drink? How's the liver?

I spoke in general terms about how taxes work (with what little I really know, but how much I see) and you ding me for smoking? A bit personal. I never said people suck for having kids, I just don't get the 5000 dollar 'refunds.'

Besides, George Burns did just fine as a health heathen. ;)

That's my point IM. Isn't there somewhere, somehow, something that you do or will benefit that others don't, but still are paying in? Simplistic, I know. And I probably shouldn't step all over your complaint, since I have similar ones too.

I didn't mean umbrage to be taken so strongly IM. I thought it was kinda mild myself. Sorry about that. I didn't really take offense...:blush: Smoking was just the quickest, best example I could come up with, I didn't mean it as a 'ding'.

As I said, I'm willing to support the community. The schools. The hospitals. The things that happen, could happen, to any of us that might take extra care...I get that.

I am speaking specifically about the hugely skewed tax system. Buys a lot of big screens, and I'm only speaking from my experience from friends who brag about those very things.