The Cellar - WWJK: Who would Jesus Kill - Military supplier adds bible references to rifle sights

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Womanly = domestic; manly = the polity

*shakes head* I give up.

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Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla (Post 632108)

Griff, that stretches credulity -- and doesn't exactly pop up in The Neocon Reader either. Leftist totalitarian roots?? Irving Kristol??

Neocons' Leftist Origins

Neocons were former liberal war hawks, many of whom were intellectuals, who felt disenfranchised by the Democratic Party's embrace of the peace movement. The neocons decided to jump ship and join with the Republicans, in whom they felt they would have a more receptive audience for their internationalist agenda. They were welcomed with open arms by the Rockefeller Republicans and other members of the beltway right. Traditional conservatives were not enthused by these new arrivals, but they felt that a new group of intellectuals would add gravitas to the movement.

Neoconservative thought represents an ideology with more similarities to Trotskyite communism than traditional American conservatism. Writing in the Weekly Standard, Irving Kristol, who is widely considered to be the godfather of neocons, freely admitted that neoconservatism originated "from disillusioned liberal intellectuals in the 1970s." Kristol himself is an admitted former Trotskyite. Trotskyism is the theory of Marxism named after Leon Trotsky, who strongly supported an international socialist revolution and asserted that socialism could only come into being on a global scale. Kristol was the managing editor of Commentary Magazine from 1947 to 1952, which is referred to as the neocon bible. Kristol is also the father of William Kristol, founder of the Weekly Standard. William Kristol, part of the second generation of neocons, is considered to be one of the leading voices of the movement.

Neocon Michael Ledeen, contributing editor for National Review, explained his leftist roots in an interview and said, "I describe myself as a democratic revolutionary, I don't think of myself as 'conservative' at all."

In the book Where the Right Went Wrong: How Neoconservatives Subverted the Reagan Revolution and Hijacked the Bush Presidency, Pat Buchanan explains:

"The first generation were ex-Trotskyites, socialists, leftists and liberals who backed FDR, Truman, JFK and LBJ. When the Democratic Party was captured by McGovern in 1972 — on a platform of cutting defense and 'Come Home America!' — these Cold War liberals found themselves isolated and ignored in their own party. Adrift, they ran over to the Republican Party and were pulled aboard as conservatism's long voyage was culminating in the triumph of Reagan."

Exactly: neoconservatism sprouted from disillusionment wrought by experience with the Old and the New Left. A growth experience, and a salubrious one too. These are less "origins in totalitarianism" than the complete rejection of it.

How would the rejection of the New Left and its works come out badly? Through not being leftist any more? Isn't that an unduly strained definition of "bad?" Sounds more to me like finally making it to adulthood. "If you're not a socialist at twenty, you have no heart; if you're still a socialist at forty, no brains."

Neoconservatism is less a rejection than a full embrace of the "total state." They found no problem with activist domestic government but rather split because of the new left's rejection of militarism, the neo-con Frankenstein's other leg.

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Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 631979)

@ Sky: .............

I just know when you have kids you'll subdue them with academic explanations.

I knew what your angle was. I was astray. It's a gift.;)

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Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 631863)

I'd much rather have robust womanly antitotalitarianism :P

i mean seriously...manly?

PNAC = excess testosterone therefore nothing but manly

http://www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/PNAC-Primer.htm

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Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla (Post 631846)

As a person of freedom, I say no. I have the belief that liberty should not be denied any people through caviling on the part of any other people.

eloquant

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Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla (Post 632187)

"If you're not a socialist at twenty, you have no heart; if you're still a socialist at forty, no brains."

We have Obama and he is 40ish and apparently not brain dead and a lot of accusation as being a socialist so it looks to me like we swung away from neo conservatism although we will be paying for those policies for sometime to come.

@ Griff. I appreciated your linked article. It got me reading about something I'd rather not think about.
Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by skysidhe (Post 632254)

I just know when you have kids you'll subdue them with academic explanations.

Never gonna happen ::P

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Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 631764)

Half assed? You have to be kidding. That was a one sided fight all the way, there was nothing half Assad about it other than us pulling out to refocus on Iraq.

They got away! Moving the baddies from Afghanistan to Pakistan (temporarily), is not winning... it's half assed, and a failure.

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So you think the whole UN thing, the failed weapons inspections, and intell stating they had WMD was nothing more than a ruse?

No it was a success, except it didn't match the neocon agenda. Saddam was a pain in the ass, but not a threat.

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Any thought that we went into Iraq for Haliburton is Conspiracy Theory and unsupported by the facts. If you have something to show me to the contrary I will be glad to read it.

:lol2: Yeah right, the military-industrial industry doesn't have any influence in Washington. Cheney and Rumsfeld just pulled this plan out of their ass.

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Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 632268)

:lol2: Yeah right, the military-industrial industry doesn't have any influence in Washington. Cheney and Rumsfeld just pulled this plan out of their ass.

That's were all the best plans are kept!

Back to the WWJK idea, it strikes me that the early Romans were much more honest. When the Romans needed to kill they just went to Mars, they didn't have to reinterpret other gods... just a thought. I guess we can blame Augustine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla (Post 632187)

"If you're not a socialist at twenty, you have no heart; if you're still a socialist at forty, no brains."

Only in the Land of UG...where the cowardly lions are also socialists until they get the courage to be freedom fighters and spread the UG vision of imposing an American-style democracy, by force if necessary, even where it is not wanted or may not be the best fit.

Read the Secret 'Jesus' Messages

Wow - This is even more insignificant than I originally thought.
Look at how obscure this is (See screw for reference)
View more pics here

You are right, I see how it would be so obvious.