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-   -   Drug Wars tooooo close to home! (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=17222)

Redux 04-26-2010 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliantha (Post 651869)
Yep, that's pretty much what I said. They need evidence to suggest I've committed the crime in order to collect more evidence. :)
And, with a few exceptions (not related to citizenship status), they need a warrant as well. Cops cant determine on their own that they have probable cause.

TheMercenary 04-26-2010 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux (Post 651861)
It sure does.

Read the words directly from the Court's decision:
“The rights of the petitioners, as affected by the proceedings of which they complain, are not less because they are aliens and subjects of the emperor of China… . The fourteenth amendment to the constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. It says: ‘Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.’ These provisions are universal in their application, to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality; and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws… . The questions we have to consider and decide in these cases, therefore, are to be treated as involving the rights of every citizen of the United States equally with those of the strangers and aliens who now invoke the jurisdiction of the court.”
As I stated the law of the late 1880's is no longer valid, nor does it make all persons in the US "Citizens" under our Constitution.

http://www.law.illinois.edu/lrev/pub.../Bernstein.pdf

TheMercenary 04-26-2010 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux (Post 651873)
And, with a few exceptions (not related to citizenship status), they need a warrant as well. Cops cant determine on their own that they have probable cause.
But it would be very easy to set up a road block and stop all persons. Pretty easy get around IMHO. I will send them an email as a suggestion.

TheMercenary 04-26-2010 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 651866)
the sexual tension between merc and redux is alarming.

when they finally have sex, there will be earthquakes a plenty.
Only if he wears his Burka. :lol2:

TheMercenary 04-26-2010 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliantha (Post 651865)
Well, provided I was proven guilty of course.
Of course. And if you were detained and found to be here illegally you should be deported, as I would if I was in found to be in Aus illegally. And we should support our police to do the same.

skysidhe 04-26-2010 11:11 PM
Quote:
Arizona has an estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants and is the nation's busiest border crossing point. Its remote desert expanses serve as the illegal gateway for thousands of Mexicans and Central Americans.

The state's new sweeping measure requires police officers to determine the status of people if there is "reasonable suspicion" that they are illegal immigrants, and to arrest those who are unable to provide documents proving they are in the country legally.

Senator John McCain, his Republican opponent in the 2008 presidential race, said Mr Obama should sanction 6,000 additional security forces for the border if he wanted Arizona to avoid laws he disapproved of.

Speaking in Phoenix, Arizona, Sen McCain said: "That way the Arizona legislature would not have to enact the legislation they have had to do because of the federal government's failure to carry out its responsibility, which is to secure the border." Sen McCain has called the proposed law a "good tool" without offering a strong endorsement.

Republican Senator Russell Pearce, who sponsored the Arizona law, said it would remove "political handcuffs" from police and help drive illegal immigrants from the state.
Arizona is in crisis. I think this article sums up a really hard position Arizona has had to take but one that is needed.

Aliantha 04-26-2010 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux (Post 651873)
And, with a few exceptions (not related to citizenship status), they need a warrant as well. Cops cant determine on their own that they have probable cause.
Yes, I've seen that on law and order. :D

Cops cant determine on their own that they have probable cause

The wording here made me laugh. It almost suggests that cops aren't very smart and 'just need a little help sometimes'. lol

Redux 04-26-2010 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 651876)
As I stated the law of the late 1880's is no longer valid, nor does it make all persons in the US "Citizens" under our Constitution.

http://www.law.illinois.edu/lrev/pub.../Bernstein.pdf
Why do you keep insisting on raise the false issue of making persons in the US "citizens"

I never said that and the Court never said that.

And the view of one attorney has not prevented the Court from citing Wo and other similar cases as precedent to affirm equal protection under the law for non-citizens.

I'm done.

TheMercenary 04-26-2010 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux (Post 651873)
Cops cant determine on their own that they have probable cause.
:lol2:
You don't know very many cops do you.

Aliantha 04-26-2010 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 651880)
Of course. And if you were detained and found to be here illegally you should be deported, as I would if I was in found to be in Aus illegally. And we should support our police to do the same.
Well if you were here illegally and declared yourself a refugee, you'd have to spend a fair amount of time in a refugee camp before anything would happen to you.

skysidhe 04-26-2010 11:13 PM
Quote:
Supporters say SB1070 helps secure the border, at least indirectly, by making it harder for illegal immigrants to live without scrutiny in Arizona. "When the federal government failed to act, Arizonans did," says J.D. Hayworth, a former Representative who is challenging Senator John McCain in the Republican primary. "[Arizonans] have been asking for years to have the federal government secure that border."
Largely because of that frustration, polls showed that a wide majority of Arizona's voters backed SB1070. And although Hispanics are thought to be about 30% of the general population, they are only 12% of the electorate,
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...#ixzz0mGq2vyFA

TheMercenary 04-26-2010 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux (Post 651883)
Why do you keep insisting on raise the false issue of making persons in the US "citizens"

I never said that and the Court never said that.

And the view of one attorney has not prevented the Court from citing Wo and other similar cases as precedent to affirm equal protection under the law for non-citizens.

I'm done.
"Non-Citizens" do not have the same rights as "Citizens" under our Constitution. That is the only point. They have limited Rights.

TheMercenary 04-26-2010 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliantha (Post 651885)
Well if you were here illegally and declared yourself a refugee, you'd have to spend a fair amount of time in a refugee camp before anything would happen to you.
See now that is what we need!

Refugee Camps. Just like in Hong Kong. And I have been to two of them.

Do you think the Bleeding Hearts on here would support that idea? :D

Aliantha 04-26-2010 11:20 PM
I don't know, but all of ours are full and K rudd wants to close our borders to refugees which is causing an uproar.

I think they should get moving and process the current refugees and either grant them citizenship or send them home. Some of them have to stay in these camps for years which I think is insupportable. Mind you, they do have access to all the mod cons, but still, they are in a prison, and that's not right for lengthy periods.

Every country has its own problems with this issue. Our major one is that most of the people come through Indonesia, and the Indonesian government really isn't that interested in halting their progress there because Ind is not their final destination. Australia is.

They're better off being caught by Australian authorities than Australian fishermen though. They have a much higher chance of survival that's for sure.

squirell nutkin 04-26-2010 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux (Post 651873)
Cops cant determine on their own that they have probable cause.
One of my friends, whose dad is a cop, told me he was driving with his dad in Brooklyn near their house when his dad spotted a couple of kids walking down the street wearing baggy pants, long chain wallets, new flat ball caps (they prolly have a name) etc. That kind of outfit.

His dad says to him, "Ya see that? That's probable cause! I could search them."

My friend just cracked up.


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