We were given a choice this year at the rehab. Get the flu shot or get fired. I made the infection control nurse use my own Hello Kitty bandaid.

Just say: Use my Hello Kitty Band-Aid or this gets fired ...

Attachment 45721

Oh, how perfect!

I wish they had a vaccine for cancer

There's one - a vaccine against HPV (Human Papilloma Virus) - that protects against cervical cancer and cancers of the anus, vagina, and vulva that are due to HPV. See http://www.cdc.gov/hpv/vaccine.html.

And, thanks for the link, UT. The guy uses only US data from the CDC. Those numbers are reliable.

Described are more examples of why medicine recommends all kids be vaccinated. Even infants who cannot yet be vaccinated are at significantly greater risk due to others who deny their responsibility to society. That 'screw everyone else' attitude exists.

Vaccinations for decades were effective when many followed proven science. Or learned it. Which meant the few that were not protected by vaccinations (ie infants that were too young, children that a vaccine will not work) also remained protected.

Once people started listening to a stripper as an expert (or similar scam artists), then death rates took an uptick. That is a fact. Exacerbated antiscience attitudes manipulated by increasingly subjective media outlets are where the naive get the bulk of their science-related information. No problem if they learn from their mistakes. But a poster child shows that "Emotion is the first indication he has already lost the argument."

. No responsible adult could condone his mistake. But then some are so self righteous to believe in ensuring their own prosperity even at increased risk to others. Their motivation justifies it. Screw everyone else.

I was just looking at the 2013 vaccine schedule. polio is still on there. I thought that had been eradicated world wide. Why is that still on there?

Doc, if you were me, what vaccines would you consider having done for a 15 year old, and a 13 year old child?

Oh. ..I was thinking of a small pox, wasn't I?

"spin doctoring" and "propagandize" here are the sorts of emotional
word-usage that TW has been talking about all along.
If Sexobon could make his polemics convincingly, he would not need them.

I have previously disagreed with the use of death as the end point of assessing risk.
but have my limited recent postings to death-related data from reasonably reputable sources.

A significant portion of the discussion in this thread has included herd immunity.
Unless Sexobon subscribes to the school of "pathogen autogenesis",
he has yet to suggest an explanation for the increase in incidence
of vaccine-preventable diseases, with their associated death rates
or aftereffects in the Wakefield/McCatrhy era.

The popular press (Time (2011)) reported a Univ Michigan study
that ~25% of the people trusted her erroneous attributions.

But now, which parents today should blame the messenger...

Polio has an interesting legacy from the cold war. Since it could be used as a weapon in a world that no longer needs that vaccine, then both the US and Russia have this disease in cold storage. So that vaccines can be created if needed.

You're right, LJ - smallpox has been eradicated as a 'wild-type' disease, although small samples still exist in laboratories. The WHO has been working hard to make polio the second infectious disease to be eradicated, and the program has been very successful - except in Nigeria, in some of the northern states like Kano State. Due to recent assassinations of community health workers and families bringing their children for vaccination, the WHO has temporarily halted immunization programs there.

If the 13 and 15 year old are completely vaccine-naive and they were my children, I would want them to receive the primary immunization series for tetanus/diphtheria/pertussis; a series for polio using the inactivated vaccine; meningococcal vaccine; two doses of MMR; the varicella vaccine; Hep A & B (this comes as a combination vaccine or can be separate); and the HPV vaccine. I've included a link: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/who/teens/for-parents.html that has information for parents on recommendations. If you google 'vaccine recommendations teens no previous immunizations', you can link to a pdf file that has the 'catch-up' schedule for 7 - 18 year olds who are naive or behind schedule. I couldn't get that link to work directly here, but it's the best one.

Polio has been eradicated in the US, but a visitor from Africa, or even possibly India or Afghanistan, where cases of polio have only just ceased and there may still be undocumented cases, could bring the virus here and infect susceptible people. Varicella is much more severe in older children and adults. Hep B is particularly nasty and there's a high rate of transmission. Hep A still pops up in foodborne outbreaks, and if your teens go on a school or other trip to Central American countries they will likely encounter it. Pertussis is milder in adults but the idea is to make adults less susceptible so that they don't pass it on to susceptible infants.

Hmm ... just thinking I should have prioritized that list. If I were going to get things done over a period of time rather than all at once, I'd go for the tetanus/diphtheria/pertussis series first. Tetanus is a direct, ongoing threat because it lives in soil, we all encounter it, and we have no treatment for it (we can give Tetanus Immunoglobulin at the wound site along with starting a tetanus series for those who are susceptible, but ... much better to be protected).

Then, depending on my kids' contacts and travel plans, I'd have them get the varicella vaccine, the MMR vaccine, the meningococcal vaccine. Then the Hepatitis vaccines and HPV. Polio could wait until the end if the kids aren't traveling outside the country and aren't in contact with visitors from abroad. I'd still do it, but the kids are more likely to run into the other diseases.

Eta ... even though polio is now rare, I'd still want my kids protected from it because 90% of infections are asymptomatic. That means that a contact could have the disease and be shedding virus/infectious and never know it. You wouldn't have to come into contact with someone who was ill with the disease. So many young people go abroad at some point - until polio is eradicated worldwide, I'd go for protection.

If the kids were going to travel abroad then I'd move the polio, Hep A and B, and any other specific immunization recommendations for the destination (like Yellow Fever) up the list.

The College of Physicians of Philadelphia has a nice web site on vaccines, how they work, their history, etc., here: http://www.historyofvaccines.org/con...ation-schedule.

Lots of interesting information.

Eta - all of the recommendations above are what I'd think about for my children, in consultation with our family doctor who knows the kids. Anyone considering pursuing this should do so in consultation with their own physician. I am not making specific recommendations or prescriptions for anyone.

Tw made a statement:
Clod asked him for supporting facts:
Tw didn't giver Clod supporting facts claiming they were elusive:
Clod identified his evasiveness and gave him a chance to redress her question:
Lamp acknowledged the context of the conversation and gave statistics:
Sexobon pointed out that those statistics weren't entirely attributable to Jenny McCarthy:
Not that portion.
You drew that erroneous conclusion; because, you forgot to first ask (which you do a lot) which camp I fall into. I'm all for childhood vaccinations; so, obviously emotion doesn't attach. No, my assessment was based on the contents of the posts, in the context of the flow of the conversation as acknowledged by the users within their own posts. The responses to Clod's question were evasive, misleading, and not by accident. The assessment is logical and accurate. With friends like that, the cause doesn't need enemies.

The mothers can be vaccinated shortly before giving birth to help protect infants <2 mo.

Just to clarify, while that is true of the DTaP vaccine it is not true of the MMR or any other live attenuated virus vaccines. (I know tw was referring to your quote about pertussis; just didn't want people to incorrectly suppose that all vaccines can be given shortly before birth to protect a young infant.)

[Quote/] The responses to Clod's question were evasive, misleading, and not by accident. The assessment is logical and accurate. With friends like that, the cause doesn't need enemies.[/quote]
Precisely. throne. Of lies.

Still, I'll trade you tw for Jenny

Maybe tw and Jenny can do a porn flick together. Think what it would do for world harmony.

Oh, thanks for taking the time to answer my question, Ortho.

The hepatitis vaccines make sense to me. As I recall, jinx was very against Gardisil. ... I don't really remember the issues she has with it. I think she and merc went a few rounds on here about it somewhere.

I'm on the fence about chicken pox, mostly because they never got the disease as kids.

When the divorce is final, she will have custody, so I'm not sure what say I will have in the matter. .. plus she still won't speak to me about anything other than the kids schedule, so having a rational discussion about it is highly unlikely. I won't be taking anyone to court over this either, so it may come down to the kids dealing with this decision once they are adults.

I'm going to talk to them about it soon though, and take their temperature on the issue. I don't know what their mother has told them about it all.

Me too... stab all the children, shoot 'em too. :p:

The "blame the reader" tactic when found wanting is called obscurantisme terroriste,
as in ... you misunderstood me/my... it's your fault you forgot to ask ... etc.

If it's important to know your position, put it in your posts.
For me, it's a minor issue which camp you're in.

The "spin doctoring" and "propagandize" and now with:
"With friends like that, the cause doesn't need enemies."
These are your emotional word usages, not mine or TW's.

Was answered. Actual numbers are complicated by factors such as some vaccines are not 100% effective and recent discoveries that some vaccines might be losing effectiveness. Apparently uncertainty exists. Lamplighter's numbers confirm that bottom line. Numbers so one sided as to be obvious. To not vaccinate was irresponsible (ill informed) reasoning. To be angry and offensive because those mistakes were exposed is simply an adult acting like a child. His tirade (and not one fact) confirms even he knows it.

Assumed was that mothers will always nurse their children. Protection does not transfer when mothers do not nurse.

shut up, tw.

you ignore the numbers i posted. then you lie about my refusing to post them, go read back. i said it. zero deaths from measles in 1998. 60+ mmr vaccine related deaths. see below for current year info. only numbers that really mattered to me at the time. jenny mccarthy did not provide them either. your mom did.

anyway... here's some stuff I found today while bored at work:

cases (not deaths, were there any deaths??) of measles recorded in the US by year:

• In 2007 there were 43 cases reported nationwide
• In 2008 there were 140 cases
• In 2009 there were 71 cases
• In 2010 there were 63 cases
• In 2011 there were 217 cases
• In 2012 through Feb. 18, 2012 there were 13

check this out. it's a big chart so I took a screen shot and linked it.
Attachment 45723

I can't find YTD figures for deaths in the US from Measles Mumps or Rubella, but I did find that link above. I don't know if that's because no one in the US actually dies from any of those???

Am I reading that chart right though?

did 57 people DIE from the MMR vaccine this year?

and 696!!! from the DTP(diphtheria-tetanus-whole cell pertussis) vaccine? was there a bad batch?

what the hell?

I'm glad you can see your propaganda is transparent.

Insufficiently.

I didn't say mothers will nurse. I didn't even say mothers will get vaccinated. I said:
Reading comprehension tw (or maybe that was just more spin doctoring).

Well i learned something today. So thanks for that.

LJ, if you go back to the link that you posted, and scroll down
below your chart there is an explanation (definition) of settlements, etc.
By no means is the data saying so many people died from MMR.
It's just how many suits were filed and how many were compensated with $.

The Vaccine Injury Table is linked here

But they list deaths. ... so you're saying that the vaccine company just settled and it doesn't necessarily prove that child was killed by the vaccine? But somebody did die? 646 sets of parents believed that the DPT vaccine killed their kids.... and strongly enough to file a suit? And that is just year to date...

I would think that would have made news? I admit I do not follow it.... what was the situation there? Is that normal? Maybe 0 of the 646 cases here have actually been proven to be caused by the DPT vaccine... This is just 646 Jenny McCarthys?

I'm actually asking that question. Not being shitty at all. Are they just 646 cases of people trying to get paid when their kid died? Like a class action suit or something? so that stat its padded.... one big case with the 646 parties on the plaintiff's side?

LJ, I am reading the chart for DPT as a total of 3980 suits made up of both Injury and Death classes.
The 1269 "compensated" suits does not distinguish between these two classes.
And I don't think the injury/death class data can be determined from your link.

For example, from The Injury Table, one "compensated injury" for DPT is deemed to be:
While one may believe such an injury or death is caused by the DPT,
it may have been only coincidentally associated at the time with the DPT.
Whatever actually caused the injury or death is not determined by the settlement or award.

I got the impression that it can be determined by compensation. Compensation does not always mean causation (e.g. settlements); but, it can.

Non-compensable/Dismissed doesn't necessarily mean there was no causation.

The chart represents lawsuits filed and the subsequent settlements or dismissals, not number of cases. 'Deaths' means that a death occurred and a plaintiff has filed a suit claiming that the death was vaccine-related. This is not a chart that provides statistics about vaccine-related injury, it's a chart about lawsuits.

There were numerous lawsuits a few decades ago claiming that mishandling of deliveries by obstetricians caused cerebral palsy in infants. There were numerous enormous monetary awards from juries. The science demonstrated that cerebral palsy is not due to birth injury, but begins early in pregnancy. Nevertheless, the judgments stood.

I would look at CDC or WHO databases if I were looking for data on injuries. Even then, every negative sensation experienced by anyone who has received a vaccine within the past few weeks is recorded. There are no attempts to determine causation; it's a database that can, at most, provide information as to association.

Association does not infer causation.

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!...ne/iE5Eop4FePs

Was this for real?

At this time of night, without having the time to devote further research to it ... this link is to a post by someone named 'John' on an unnamed board, who provided a nonfunctioning link to a court decision. We can only take 'John's' word for the summary.

The key phrase I see in the post is the reference to the 'Eggshell Skull Rule', and the admission that Benjamin 'may have had a genetic predisposition or a physiologic susceptibility' to intractable seizures, encephalopathy, and developmental delay.

I'm sorry, LJ, I'd have to look into this more fully before saying anything. If this child had normal health prior to the immunization, does that prove that the immunization caused his subsequent health problems? Would he have developed those problems regardless of immunization because he had a previously undiagnosed condition? Is there evidence that the vaccination specifically caused the subsequent health problem; is the effect reproducible; is it dose-dependent; is it biologically explainable/logical?

I will try to find information on this case tomorrow.

Did you miss-type this? I'd assume most parents who are up all night nursing their fever spiking babies through the vaccination process have already been told that they'll probably have a fever and their doctor will not welcome a call about something that has already been explained.

"lumberjim you ignorant slut." Even your own numbers demonstrate the MMR vaccine is near zero risk. You did not do valid research (ignored perspective) to put infants (not just your own) at greater risk. Now your only provided numbers are from lawsuits. Which have less relationship to science.

As orthodoc and others demonstrate, a specific number is hard to isolate. Too many variables (some defined earlier) result in various numbers. However we do know this. lumberjim's mistake and repeated denials is a poster child of the problem. Risks of not doing the MMR vaccines are many times greater than any adverse reaction. Those numbers are not in dispute. We know fears of autism (like so many other fears that preceded it) are completely misplaced.

The post from 'John' further demonstrates junk science. The concept says, "Once we have eliminated all other possibilities, then what remains must be the truth." One small problem. That MMR decision did not and could not eliminate so many other possibilities. So its logic was obviously flawed. Only junk science reasoning can create that resulting conclusion.

So lumberjim remains angry. The emotional (1. due to motivated reasoning and 2. not seeing what is obviously junk science reasoning) fear to learn from mistakes.

tw - sometimes you just like to piss on the campfire don't you? Seems like you are determined to keep things on a personal level. Be glad Jim is a good man because you can push some folks too far. Just sayin'......

Even when common side effects have been explained, parents may bring their child in to the ER if they can't settle the baby (especially first-time parents with a 2 month old). Or their physician will likely ask, at the next visit, whether there were any problems or side effects with the previous immunizations. Those things go into the databases.

Or sometimes they don't bother. My daughter's only in the database because I put her there myself. The doctor felt that head-to-toe hives and explosive emerald green diarrhea with no end in sight were not severe enough reactions, apparently.

Yeah, in my experience they didn't want to hear about potential issues especially from someone who tried to open a discussion about stretching out the schedule. The politics seem to trump what is actually happening with the child. Picture a discussion with tw as if he made his living in medicine.

Probably NOT !

I've spent a while trying to find an original, reliable record of this "court case"... nothing.

This looks a lot like a plant on a Google forum database.
My searches turned up numerous web pages all referring back to this one post.
Those web pages (except for one newpaper) were obviously politically "anti-vaccine".
The newspaper also only reprinted information in the Google posting.

I found nothing new, beyond what is in LJ's link.
Maybe others can be successful, but I'll be surprised.

Just funnin'
 

Well there you go, Big Sarge has diagnosed tw with Bendii Syndrome. Why hasn't medical science come up with a prevention for this?
Ortho,
Ortho,
Anyone?
Ortho.
:p:

Well, I am surprised... I found the court record of this case with this link which downloads a pdf file.

The child was born in June 2004 and had a medical record of developmental delay.
The MMR vaccine was given in November 2004.

28 pages later, the Special Master ruled in favor of the plaintiff,
and ordered compensation.

I apologize for my ineptitude in the previous posting.

There's a few YouTube clips of local news stories too but they phrase things suspiciously... I figured it would have been a big to do if it was legit.

I'm so sorry, clearly mybad, I obviously didn't read the entire thread closely enough and was looking for somewhere other than a new thread to park that article because I thought it might be of interest to those here who feel passionately about vaccinations (either way) but figured we'd done the actual debate to death so a new thread was not warranted. I should try not to think so hard about these things.

Myself, I'm in the middle of the field. We opt out of some vaccines, but do many for the good of the herd or because it's a requirement and not a battle worth picking. So I agree with most of you :)

Some really good news for a change...

Rubella and rubeola share similar names. Both are caused by a virus.
Both cause a skin rash. And both are considered to be a type of measles.

Years ago a pre-marital blood test was required for syphillis...
and some public health labs also tested women for rubella immunity
Then the pre-marital tests were dropped, and the rubella test was given
when the woman was in her first pregnancy.
Now, I don't know what tests are being done for rubella, if any.

Rubella (German measles) eradicated from Americas
BBC News = 4/29/15