God I wish people would read the whole post before they comment. I was talking about the sub topic which I've opened a different thread about in order to stop polluting this one with rubbish.

Quite obviously there have been women commenting on the issue of gun ownership during the course of this thread.

After all these gun-threads I still haven't seen one bit of proof that allowing civilians to carry concealed weapons makes the US a safer country. On the contrary...

I expect the usual suspects will use the widely critized junk-science of Lott and Mauser to proof that guns make the US a safer country. But the junk-science of these 2 people can be compared to a survey(*) in 1995 which suggests that 1,2 Mio US people have been in contact with aliens.


(*)A 1995 survey by NBC asked 1500 Americans "Have you personally ever been in contact with aliens from another planet or not?". Extrapolating the results (0.6%) to the entire US population would suggest that 1.2 million Americans have been in actual contact with aliens.

Hell, dude, check out the Ouija thread. Apparently we've got a good number of superstitious nutcases right here on the board... :)

ha ha ha
reductio ad Roswell

When I was in Merced, CA, I was at the motel unloading my stuff. Because of the value of the items I was carrying in my vehicle, I carried a gun whenever transporting them. I took my suitcase up to the room, and when I returned, 2 guys approached my truck from different angles. One hopped over the fence by the pool and came from the rear, and the other was already peeking in the back windows when I came around the corner, so I don't know where he came from.

I'm normally pretty friendly to people when travelling, but these guys were up to no good. I said "how's it going" and started around to the passenger side to get the vehicle between me and them. They both moved to block me in, then suddenly they didn't seem interested in me at all. They took off running (literally) in 2 different directions. The reason? I had a Glock 21 on my hip that they apparently hadn't seen because of the stuff I was carrying in.

There was no cowboy music playing, I didn't feel like a tough guy nor did I feel overly freaked out or anything. I just went around to the desk and told the woman there that there were a couple of guys casing her customers. I dunno if she ever called the cops or not, or even if she understood me. I never saw the guys again, and the rest of the month went by without incident.

Did I "make the country a safer place" or "blahblahblah reduce crime blahblahblah"? No. But the presence of a weapon kept me from being a victim. And I don't care for people telling me that they don't think I should have that right. If other people are misusing their rights, take it up with them. I have nothing to do with it.

Absolutely. I you don't threaten me my guns will never be an issue. :thumb2:

It is not junk science. It has never been even rebutted, let alone debunked. Read More Guns, Less Crime and you will enjoy enlightenment. Until you do, you will be victimized by any crime and any genocidal episode that comes along. See Simkin, Zelman, and Rice for the connection between gun "control" and genocides. They haven't been rebutted either.

I have enjoyed this enlightenment, and am thereby proof against any and all antigun arguments -- the progun arguments are too solid and too good. Couple billion dollars too good. General gun ownership is also the only known genocide preventative, and genocide is best dealt with ahead of time. The force of the State is not, and cannot be, a bulwark against an episode of genocide.

Are you worried about genocide while living in the USA UG? I would have thought there'd be something in the constitution about the govt not killing everyone because of the colour of their skin or their religion or other beliefs.

The ultimate question is this:

If the two guys had persisted, and tried to take your stuff, would you have killed them? Is "stuff" worth more than the lives of those two guys?

The way I read it, they were going to kick the shit out of noodle and take his gear. Would that have been the better outcome?

If Noodle walked/ran away, nobody gets beat up or shot dead. Is "gear" worth killing?

Was he going to be allowed to walk away and maybe contact authorities? Why let the criminals decide whether or not Noodle spends the rest of his days on a respirator? Noodle did not initiate force, but they chose to at a minimum intimidate and their further intentions were not clear, he had a moral obligation to respond.

First, he didn't "respond"

And second, "he had a moral obligation to respond"?!??! WTF? He has a "moral obligatio" to threaten someone with a gun, shoot someone, and/or kill someone? What kind of morals are they?

The 11th commandment: "Thou shalt protect thy "stuff" with weapons, and injureth or killeth any whosoever might try to taketh thy "stuff". Amen.

Spexx, did you just blatantly ignore Griff's point, completely drop one side of the equation, and falsely amplify the other side of the equation to the worst possible outcome in order to win the argument?

That's some hard work!